21mm Super Elmar M & 18mm Super Elmar M

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Planing future glass purchases is an entertaining form of procrastination (for me). I need to create some marketing materials for new product lines, but I have no motivation and lacking inspiration. The cask strength non chill filtered 16 year Glenlivet 16 Nadurra is beckoning. As I was trying to decide between it or the trusty Glenfiddich 15, I realized its time I seriously started working on my wide angle photography. End of year, I should be able to make one major purchase. I'm interested in hearing about your collective thoughts and experiences with the 21mm Super Elmar M & 18mm Super Elmar M lenses. On average, do 3mm make much of a difference? Does the focus dial feel better on one than the other? Rendering differences? Cons? Do they behave well on the M9?

 

The lenses probably will not see much use for architecture, and probably will see a lot of use indoors (in party/dancing scenarios) with augmented light. And on the rare occasions I get some time off for vacation, they'll see the obvious use for landscape.

 

And finally, I'm leaning towards the 21mm (since its a newer design) and its further away from the CV 15mm.

[gpwhite]

I can offer comments on only a few of your questions, as I am a big fan of my 18SEM and have only test shot the 21 SEM.

 

The wide angle Elmars (18, 21 and 24) were all designed together and are equally current designs. The were rolled out separately because Leica has encountered issues from time to time bringing new products into their production pipeline. The differences in perspective and in DOF at close focus, wide open, are both very noticeable between 18 and 21. As a result, you will find much more isolation of the focus point with 21 f3.4 at 0.8m than with 18 f3.8 at 0.7m.

 

Both great on M9, and I find the edges pick up noticeably on M240 over M9 using my 18.

 

I would urge you to rent both and shoot them together. If you shoot, process, then shoot, process... by day two it will be very apparent to you which lens you prefer, or don't be surprised if you must have both for their individual characters.

 

Finally, since I am blathering (without effects of single malt), Leica M wide angles beyond 28mm are simply unmatched by any other option in any format... Enjoy as many of them as you can:o!

 

Peter

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[M9reno]

The SEM 18mm is a wonderful monster, but for me has been very hard to tame. It really comes into its own in massive places like Versailles (top three pictures), where you need to get it ALL in. I find the portrait (top) particularly nice, and landscape is also good, though beware the horizontal distortion (which I think has been discussed elsewhere in this forum) apparent in the third picture.

 

The fourth shot, of the "Tower of the Winds" in Athens, may have some beauty, too, but it is pretty worthless (to me) as an architectural photo, or as an illustration of the actual site. My vertical tilt was not that great, and it underlines one really needs a spirit level with this lens, and very careful composition.

 

All these shots are from my M9.

 

I don't have a 21mm. 18 is more than wide enough for me. My next lens along is a 28.

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[CaptZoom]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, the sample photos, and the fact check.

 

Looks like the next step is renting the two lenses.

[Bill W]

Personally I am not a single malt guy, I prefer Bombay Saphire very dry and shaken drowning an olive. As far as wide angle I prefer the 21 Super Elmar. It is a relatively small lens for a 21. I have been very please with the results. If you use filters, the 18 requires an adapter. The 21 uses the same size 46 as several others lens that I own.

[pgk]

I have the 21SE. A few things to think about. Size - the 21SE takes 46mm filters - convenient and easy to carry - it will use the Leica Pola filter easily too. Viewfinders. For the 18mm you have to buy either the 18mm viewfinder of the Frankenfinder - both are expensive. For the 21mm you can use the Frankenfinder, the new 21mm viewfinder or an older 21mm viewfinder which is small and light (especially the 'plastic' one - don't discount it) and cheaper. My personal choice was made for a few reasons - I'm a fan of the 21mm Super-Angulon (I still own one) and the 21SE is a worth successor as it is small, light and offers far superior corners. 21mm to me is the widest lens which I find useful in many circumstances. Any wider and I find that a lens can simply become too wide for many subjects or is all too easily overused on what all too easily become formulaic images - but this is my personal opinion based on my own use of super/ultra-wides (and I've owned 14/17/18 and 20/21 lenses - but 21mm is now my widest rectilinear).

 

Also the choice needs to take into account your existing lenses and I find the 21mm compliments my other focal lengths well. If you can do so do go and try both lenses before deciding, although this is far easier said than done usually.

[rirakuma]

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Beautiful pics! The rendering of that lens is gorgeous, I have the WATE but now I want a SEM too

[helged]

As mentioned by O1af, WATE has a retro-focus design and is thus (fairly) immune to edge/corner coloring effects. The outstanding SEM21 produces weak but curable edge coloring on M9 and M240. I have no experience with SEM18.

[StephenPatterson]

I had both but sold the 18SEM as I found it just too close to the 21SEM. Also the 18SEM is not as flexible as the 21SEM when using filters. Now when I want wider than 21 I grab the CV 15/4.5 Heliar, and that has worked well for me. YMMV.

[Berlinman]

Hi, are normal Filters working well on the 21SEM or is it better to use slim versions like B&W ?

[MarkP]

I use 46mm B+W F-Pro filters under the 21 SEM hood with no problems.

 

The 1.4/35 Summilux ASPH uses the same hood (identical part number). My 35 is about a year and a half older than the 21 but the filters do not fit into the older hood irrespective of which lens/hood combination I use.

 

Leica are looking into it for me and hopefully will replace the older hood

[efreed2754]

Hi. Renting both makes the most sense and hopefully you are doing that.

 

In the meantime, you mentioned a 15 but nothing higher. If your widest is 35 or even 28 believe you may find the 21 more useful than the 18.

 

I have the 24 Elmarit (used to have super angulon), so when going wider went to 18 and have not looked back. Love the lens and what it does; however when traveling use my MATE and usually leave 24 home, so find 18 is a great complement to 28.

 

Whichever lenses I carry, usually find a good use for each. Every lens is a compromise in some way, meaning an 18 may be too wide at times and 21 too narrow at times. That said the 18 requires more effort to create interest than ever found the 21.

 

Let us know what you decide.

 

Ed

[algrove]

The 21SEM is one of my favorite lenses when I do not use my R 15/2.8. Filter compatibility with many other lenses is a plus.

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Ed

Thank you are your thoughts, and I think we agree on many things you mentioned. My widest lens is a 28mm. 28mm for me is pretty wide. And I am leaning towards the 21 SEM more than the 18 SEM. Late October, I have a couple of weeks vacation time scheduled. I plan on renting both during my vacation...hopefully that will help me decide between the two. The 15mm I mentioned is the CV. It's cheap enough where I think I'll eventually end up owning it.

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Al

Isn't it wonderful to have a favorite lens? For me, it's the Ziess 50mm f/2 Planar. I just really enjoy using that particular lens. I can't really quantify the reason. It was the first lens I was able to use on my M9; just about everything from Leica was not available at the time. Unlike most people at the time, I was able to get an M9 within two weeks of ordering one (early Dec 2009); tracking down new Leica lenses proved to far more challenging.

[RobertJRB]

Ed

Al

Isn't it wonderful to have a favorite lens? For me, it's the Ziess 50mm f/2 Planar. I just really enjoy using that particular lens. I can't really quantify the reason. It was the first lens I was able to use on my M9; just about everything from Leica was not available at the time. Unlike most people at the time, I was able to get an M9 within two weeks of ordering one (early Dec 2009); tracking down new Leica lenses proved to far more challenging.

 

It is. For me its the 28 cron which keeps fascinating me. Its so perfect in every way I even became a 28mm person (used to stick with 35mm before). My 35 cron ASPH I hardly use.

 

As of the 18 vs 21mm. I have the 18mm which I bought for the M8. Giving me a FL of 24mm.

After switching to the M9 my first idea was to sell the 18mm and buy a 24 or 21mm instead.

However I can't let the 18 go. Its such a great lens to use. Sharp from edge to edge, good colors, nice rendering and nice to handle. The build is the best of all the leica's I have.

 

Here some examples:

 

 

 

 

It does have some flaws like the 18mm finder (expensive and no old alternatives. The zeiss 18mm finder however is a great alternative). Another issue is the filter size. I hardly use filter so for me its no problem at all. I just have a extra set of 77mm filter for the 18mm.

But the 46mm filters for the 21mm are nice to have.

 

So at the end one of the biggest differences between the two is the price. The 18mm is more expensive by itself and the viewfinder and big filters (and filterholder) stack up to this price.

 

Renting to find out if your more a 21mm or 18mm person is indeed the best idea.

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Robert

Thank you for the insights and photos; I really like the color in the second photo.

 

Nothing's cheap in Leicaland (except for memory cards). Besides ND and polarizing filters, what other types of filters do you use?

 

I'm definitely renting both lenses, but given how difficult wide angles are for me, I'm not sure if a week is going to be enough. I'm hoping renting them will nudge me towards one over the other. It's about all I'm expecting.

[RobertJRB]

Robert

Thank you for the insights and photos; I really like the color in the second photo.

 

Nothing's cheap in Leicaland (except for memory cards). Besides ND and polarizing filters, what other types of filters do you use?

 

I'm definitely renting both lenses, but given how difficult wide angles are for me, I'm not sure if a week is going to be enough. I'm hoping renting them will nudge me towards one over the other. It's about all I'm expecting.

 

Thank you.

The only filters I use are ND's and now and than a pola. But most of the time I don't use any.

I'm not really keen on polarizing filters for deep blue skys. Only use it when I want to reduce the reflection in water ect.

 

There is a gap in the filterholder (so the view trough the viewfinder isn't blocked which allows you to see trough the filter, and thereby making it possible to set the pola filter to the correct position.

 

When renting both lenses, try to make a appointment in which you can buy the (rented lens) with a discount or so. Renting both for more than a week can be pretty expensive. I think more expensive as buying both and selling or returning the one you don't like.

[exile]

18yo Highland park for any occasion. This could be your everyday standard normal one-camera-one-malt setup.

21yo Glengoyne in the summer or with the ladies. Flattering with smooth transition. Not high contrast. Very easy-going.

Any Islay single malt (e.g. Lagavulin) for those cold dark winter evenings sat in front of the fire when you need to gather as much warrmth and light as possible. Chracterful bokeh - fantastic for those that love it, but not to everyone's taste. Prices have gone up recently due to an explosion of interest in China.

21yo Suntory. Don't let the Japanese brand put you off. This is just as good as the expensive European originals. Some would consider that statement to be sacrilige, but as a pure user I maintain my position.

 

(I prefer 21mm as a focal length)

[sblitz]

suntory and the 21, makes sense to me

 

personally i prefer the 18, got rid of my 21, if you want to go wide, go wide ..... you can always crop it to a 21. the 18 sem is that good. and on my m9, no hint of red edges.

 

oban and talisker, lagavulin more than okay as well

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

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Thank you.

The only filters I use are ND's and now and than a pola. But most of the time I don't use any.

I'm not really keen on polarizing filters for deep blue skys. Only use it when I want to reduce the reflection in water ect.

 

There is a gap in the filterholder (so the view trough the viewfinder isn't blocked which allows you to see trough the filter, and thereby making it possible to set the pola filter to the correct position.

 

When renting both lenses, try to make a appointment in which you can buy the (rented lens) with a discount or so. Renting both for more than a week can be pretty expensive. I think more expensive as buying both and selling or returning the one you don't like.

 

Fantastic idea. Thank you.