k-hawinkler Posted January 9, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is this lens worth Euro 20K (according to the latest price list at Schouten)? To me that looks like the tulip bubble in a century past. But what do I know? Moderators: If this post violates any forum rules please delete it. Thanks, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here Leica 35mm f1.4 Summilux ASPHERICAL (11873). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ivar B Posted January 9, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 9, 2012 I asked myself the very same question. The ones I have seen on eBay have sold for about half his prices, but still very expensive. However, this is a well reputed dealer and I don`t think he gets his prices completely wrong. I have a new and unused one (!) which Meister Camera in Hamburg found hidden on a shelf some years back, with box and all, just like when it was delivered by Leica. If someone offered med 20 000 Euros I could not afford to keep it in my collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 9, 2012 Share #3 Posted January 9, 2012 Me too think it's a tentative of creating a bubble around a lens which is surely : - Excellent - Rare (2000 made ? - anyway, seldom for sale) - Fully appreciable on current M9 ... but 20K are A LOT... even if with certain results at recent auctions, can be they find someone who pays such money... as usual "why not to try ? - sea is great and fishes abound" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 10, 2012 Share #4 Posted January 10, 2012 The lens is optically equivalent to the v.1 Summilux ASPH. But this is no longer a lens. It is a Leica Collectible. Ordinary measures of practical use value do no longer apply. These lenses take no pictures anymore. They are slowly gumming up in locked glass cases, in the best case, and in bank vaults, in the worst case. The old man from the Spherical Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted January 10, 2012 Share #5 Posted January 10, 2012 Sad, sad G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 10, 2012 Share #6 Posted January 10, 2012 I've had the sense that the 'bubble' has been deflating a little in recent months but who really knows?. Marco Schouten seems to play a long game (price things high and be prepared to wait for the buyer) but I can't help think €20k exc. VAT is a little ambitious for this lens (although, that said, they don't often come up in like new condition). It's an interesting price list, it seems he has stockpiled 7 of the current FLE 35 Summilux lenses and is asking over €5k exc. VAT each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted January 11, 2012 Share #7 Posted January 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I got one of these not too long ago for about 1/4 of this price. I've been shooting with it since I didn't know any better. Guess I better go rent a bank vault Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 11, 2012 Share #8 Posted January 11, 2012 The parallel with the Dutch tulip mania in the seventeenth century is actually apt. The madly soaring prices of not only Leica collectibles but collectibles in general stem from the fact that there are people who are wading in money they cannot find a productive use for, because of the state of the economy (depressed demand because too many people have too little money). Today, these people are actually paying both the U.S. Treasury and the Swedish Debt Office – in the form of a negative effective interest – to keep their money for them. 'Investment' in art objects and other collectibles is seen as an alternative. Europe is deluged with Russians and Chinese vacuuming the market for boring nineteenth century Russian paintings and for Chinese Famille Rose porcelain, jade and bronzes. These people have not discovered Leica yet. If they ever do, you will see ... Until the bubble punctures, of course. The storm clouds over the Eurozone may well start to depress prices from now. And then we will see. The old man from the Age of the First Depression (formerly the Great Depression; for analogy, see the Great War) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 11, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 11, 2012 Hello Lars, Actually, there had been a number of such events during the 19th Century. The word used to describe the same type of event during the 19th Century was "Panic". After the collapse of the stock markets Worldwide in 1929 it was felt using the word "Panic" to describe what happened might create too much fear in the minds of people who heard it so the softer term "Depression" was substituted as a way of calming people's mind-set. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivar B Posted January 11, 2012 Share #10 Posted January 11, 2012 I've had the sense that the 'bubble' has been deflating a little in recent months but who really knows?. Marco Schouten seems to play a long game (price things high and be prepared to wait for the buyer) but I can't help think €20k exc. VAT is a little ambitious for this lens (although, that said, they don't often come up in like new condition). It's an interesting price list, it seems he has stockpiled 7 of the current FLE 35 Summilux lenses and is asking over €5k exc. VAT each. He is of course free to ask any price he wants and now and then there are buyers with close to unlimited funds, and the ASPHERICAL is hard to find. I am a little more irritated that some dealers stockpile the lenses in short supply and then sell at a price above official price. Again, he is free to ask any price he wants but I am not sure it is wise for Leica to supply these dealers. I could never see that dealers like Meister or something would practice this. I paid list price for my 35mm FLE although he could probably have sold it for more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 11, 2012 Share #11 Posted January 11, 2012 I don't think Marco Schouten is an official Leica dealer (and presumably gets his stock in the open market) so he's free to sell at any price but I was a little surprised at how many of the 35 FLE lenses he has managed to acquire. Like you, I bought mine at list (in fact I got a 10% discount because it was a factory ex-demo). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelknipser Posted January 11, 2012 Share #12 Posted January 11, 2012 during the 90ies i owned 2 (!) of them, also because the helicoid was a bit troublesome (felt rather "uneven" for me due to a too short internal thread) ); later i decided to change to the follower, and nowadays i use the V II FLE.. if i only had waited "som"e years;-((, i could afford a complete Leica M equipement for that lotta bucks.. but the price, also around 10 k, is much too high.. also if the number of announced 2000 pieces never was reached (because the lens was so difficult to produce..) - the lens has not the charme of some other gems branded Leica... Is this lens worth Euro 20K (according to the latest price list at Schouten)? To me that looks like the tulip bubble in a century past. But what do I know? Moderators: If this post violates any forum rules please delete it. Thanks, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 11, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 11, 2012 Hello Lars, Actually, there had been a number of such events during the 19th Century. The word used to describe the same type of event during the 19th Century was "Panic". After the collapse of the stock markets Worldwide in 1929 it was felt using the word "Panic" to describe what happened might create too much fear in the minds of people who heard it so the softer term "Depression" was substituted as a way of calming people's mind-set. Best Regards, Michael That term, as we know, ceased to have the intended soothing effect, so we have not had one since the 1930's. They are called "recessions" nowadays. But now, when we have experienced 2008 and all that, "recession" too has become unmentionable. Wonder what the new soothing word will be? "Readjustment" perhaps? The old man from the Age of the First Depression Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted January 11, 2012 Share #14 Posted January 11, 2012 I bought one a few years ago for less than the price of a new asph - I knew it was a good deal at the time, as did my dealer. Was using it up until last fall and had often thought that selling it might be wise if times called for it...based on what I had seen in a few places, I tested the waters and ended up moving it privately. Given current auction stats I'm seeing, I think I timed it right. The right buyer is probably going to snap this up right at $10K or so. As Lars stated, it's moved into the case territory now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted January 11, 2012 Share #15 Posted January 11, 2012 I sold mine recently on this forum: it was a fantastic lens, a superb shooter (on the M9 and MP). However, it really became too expensive for me: every time I was out shooting with it I was nervous something unexpected might happen and it would be damaged beyond repair. At the same time, I could not afford to keep it for the next 5-10 years. I am now waiting for the FLE to arrive some day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted January 13, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 13, 2012 i think i have one of these too....must check later and see if the version is the one you mention...I was/am completely in the dark as to the 'collectability' of this lens.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted January 13, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 13, 2012 These are figures of the 35 F-1.4 Aspherical. Year 1988 from 3459071 to 3462070 - total:3000 Year 1993 from 3627901 to 3628400 - total: 500 Year 1993 from 3635601 to 3636100 - total: 500 Then from 3636101 (year 1993) the new Asph. variant. Even if we admit that not all the 4000 were done, we are always speaking of thousands... So we have a total of 4000 "tulip bulbs" allotted... absolutely not a rare gem (remember: you can't create a bubble with true rarity, due to scarcity of floating... ), but a collectible lens with the right features and " the right aura" that makes it the right thing for gamblers... cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 13, 2012 Share #18 Posted January 13, 2012 The lens is optically equivalent to the v.1 Summilux ASPH. Close. The Aspherical is slightly sharper in the center and slightly softer in the corners, and is slightly yellower. Enough difference that I'd prefer the Aspherical - it's a bit closer to the "Mandler look" than the ASPH - if not for the "collectors' pricing." Ah, well! An acquaintance had one back in 2003 or so that I got a chance to shoot against a store's V.1 ASPH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted January 13, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 13, 2012 I confirm that this is the case (with regards center sharpness and color cast). I have written more on this subject here Horea Close. The Aspherical is slightly sharper in the center and slightly softer in the corners, and is slightly yellower. Enough difference that I'd prefer the Aspherical - it's a bit closer to the "Mandler look" than the ASPH - if not for the "collectors' pricing." Ah, well! An acquaintance had one back in 2003 or so that I got a chance to shoot against a store's V.1 ASPH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 14, 2012 Share #20 Posted January 14, 2012 These are figures of the 35 F-1.4 Aspherical [ ... ] cheers. Which source do these figures come from? Also, alotted serial numbers do not equal actually produced lenses. The Gnomes of Solms did not suddenly discover in 1993 that they had the later ASPH lens on hand. They must have known some time before that a lens was coming that they could produce much more economically than with the old manually-controlled grinding process for the aspherical surface. After all, Leica took an active part in the development of the lens moulding process, which cannot have been done during a coffee break. The incentive to continue production of the old lens, which they probably lost money on, must have petered out before 1993. The old man from the depths of his armchair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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