DavidStone Posted March 10, 2007 Share #1 Posted March 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can anyone confirm that the 135mm f/4 Elmar of 1960-65 has a removable optical head? And if so, what adapter/s I would need to fit it onto my Visoflex 2? Thanks in advance, David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 10, 2007 Posted March 10, 2007 Hi DavidStone, Take a look here 135 Elmar on Visoflex. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
doubice Posted March 10, 2007 Share #2 Posted March 10, 2007 David, The head of the 4/135mm Elmar is definitely removable. I assume that you have the Elmar and not the later, all-black Tele-Elmar. You will need two adapters to use the optical unit on the Visoflex II. One is a focusing mount, code named OUFRO or 16464, the other one is a spacer to adapt the lens head to the focusing adapter. I am going strictly from my (fading) memory, but seem to recall that the code for that adapter was 16471. I am in the office and all my documentation is at home - if you do not get a definitive answer on the spacer adapter, I'll confirm that later. I believe it is the same adapter that would be used with the 4.5/135mm Hektor. All the best, Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 10, 2007 Share #3 Posted March 10, 2007 Ah, a pleasure to help somebody with these splendid devices... The Elmar 135 was not exactly as the Hektro 135 regarding lens unit, You had TWO ways to use it on Viso II : 1) - See page regarding the lens: simply take the 14071 Short Mount ant mount the complex on the Viso II WITH the well known 16466 (OUBIO) adapter (screw-bayonet) 2) - See page regarding adapters : mount the 16464 universal focusing mount DIRECTLY on the Viso II (has a bayonet mount); on top on this mount the lens unit of Elmar 135 with the interposition of the 16472 extension ring. You can also add a second extension tube (16471) for Macro focusing. Delicious combinations... I have ALL these devices.. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/18413-135-elmar-on-visoflex/?do=findComment&comment=196570'>More sharing options...
DavidStone Posted March 11, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted March 11, 2007 Many thanks to Jan and Luigi for that useful information. I originally bought the Visoflex because I needed to make some extreme close-ups for teaching purposes. Mounted on a copy-stand I could get an enlargement of 2.4 times on the film, with a 50mm Componon - ideal for this kind of job. Try doing that with the average SLR! And the straight-up viewer is perfect for this purpose too. Then I got the adapter for the head of the 90mm Elmar, which I've used to copy some rare documents that couldn't be photocopied. Excellent results in all cases. The Visoflex, with bellows and straight viewer, was very cheap and so far I've only used it with an M6. I don't have any focusing mounts so far. But I've just seen a 135 Elmar, in apparently excellent condition, and very cheap too, so I started to wonder about extending the system. I'll look around and see what else I can find. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 11, 2007 Share #5 Posted March 11, 2007 Many thanks to Jan and Luigi for that useful information. I originally bought the Visoflex because I needed to make some extreme close-ups for teaching purposes. Mounted on a copy-stand I could get an enlargement of 2.4 times on the film, with a 50mm Componon - ideal for this kind of job. Try doing that with the average SLR! And the straight-up viewer is perfect for this purpose too. Then I got the adapter for the head of the 90mm Elmar, which I've used to copy some rare documents that couldn't be photocopied. Excellent results in all cases. The Visoflex, with bellows and straight viewer, was very cheap and so far I've only used it with an M6. I don't have any focusing mounts so far. But I've just seen a 135 Elmar, in apparently excellent condition, and very cheap too, so I started to wonder about extending the system. I'll look around and see what else I can find. David An advice from really a LOVER of these devices... if you find a good 135 Elmar, do not look for the short mount (n° 1 in my previous message): its only value is for shooting at normal ranges (to infinity) with the Viso, a kind of shots is better done with normal lens on body, and gives no added value for macro use. Better to look for the 2) gear: Elmar is very good as a macro lens, and if you like this kind of shots, consider also to find a bellows II: it can mount the 135 lens unit too.with the SAME (16472) adapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liesevolvo Posted March 11, 2007 Share #6 Posted March 11, 2007 Hi from Cologne / Germany! Just today I used my Viso II with the 135 for some makros. BUT: After some experience with the Elmar 135 I switched to the later Tele-Elmar, which is one of the best lenses Leitz ever built, At the moment they are sold very cheap on ebay, you will get a good one with some patience - and you don't need an adapter. The heads fits directly onto the '16464'. I think, it's more expensive, but by far better value for money - and really fun on a Viso II ! My preferred lens is an Elmarit 2.8/90 (1st series), wonderful combination. Have fun with your Leica-Viso! Leonard Liese Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidStone Posted March 11, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted March 11, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi from Cologne / Germany! Just today I used my Viso II with the 135 for some makros. BUT: After some experience with the Elmar 135 I switched to the later Tele-Elmar, which is one of the best lenses Leitz ever built, At the moment they are sold very cheap on ebay, you will get a good one with some patience - and you don't need an adapter. The heads fits directly onto the '16464'. I think, it's more expensive, but by far better value for money - and really fun on a Viso II ! My preferred lens is an Elmarit 2.8/90 (1st series), wonderful combination. Have fun with your Leica-Viso! Leonard Liese Hmmm ... this is interesting. Erwin Puts, in his Leica Lens Compendium, agrees with you on the superiority of the Tele-Elmar, and it's true that they are not expensive for a lens of this quality. I finally located my copy of the Leitz handbook on reproduction devices and I can fit the lens head of the Tele-Elmar into the 16558 adapter that I use for the 90mm on the bellows II. To use it hand-held I'd need a right-angle prism and a 16464 plus a 16471, if I read the chart correctly. And of course the lens plugs straight into any M-body. Time for a re-think. Thanks again for all the info. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 12, 2007 Share #8 Posted March 12, 2007 I can confirm everything about the 135 f4 Tele Elmar : is an excellent lens in any sense, and as versatile as the previous Elmar in Visoflex+Bellows usage; I had understood You already have the Elmar 135 we spoke about: but if you are only on "buying mood", sure is better to look for a Tele Elmar, that does not cost much more : I have both, but just for the Elmar is screwmount, and I like to use sometime my nice III f... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest liesevolvo Posted March 12, 2007 Share #9 Posted March 12, 2007 Yes, try out! I don't like the Tele-Elmar 135 from it's outer appearance on an M, but it is a good and versatile lens. I had the Elmarit 135, too, but this is a really heavy block of glass, needs different adapters on a Visoflex, is a bulky thing on the M without Viso. In my humble opinion: If you want to use a Visoflex II or III, try out the combination of Elmar 65, head of early Elmarit 90, head of Tele-Elmarit 135. Same '16464' for all, same '16471' for all, combine more ''16471's. Only problem: Elmar 65 is rare and expensive. So try to find a solution with the head of the Elmarit 90 and some distance rings. Some experts say, that the head of Elmarit 90 is even better than the Elmar 65. Special idea: for 'real' makros I use the 'classical' Elmar 3.5/35, directly coupled to the Visoflex, with a 'rough' focus via the tube (take care not to block the mirror!) and fine-tuning via normal focussing. Handling a bit tricky. Another hint: Visoflex-II works very good on a Voigtlaender/Cosina 'Bessa-L' or 'Bessa-T', because they display the exposure-metering on the OUTSIDE of the camera-body. Makes things easy, much faster: Just try! Greetings from Lonard Liese from Cologne/Germany leon@rd-liese.de Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted March 12, 2007 Share #10 Posted March 12, 2007 The wonderful Visoflex One seems to have been overlooked. I use one of my 1:4/135 Elmars on Bellows I and Visoflex I, the other in rangefinder mode. On Bellows 1, focusing is from 1:1 to infinity, and only the camera needs to be rotated for a change from horizontal to vertical (or vice versa) format. It is an absolute marvel of engineering with a full frame bright screen as it has a larger mirror than the II or III. I like the V1 so much I own four just for the pleasure of rotating the camera and watching the mask do likewise. They can be bought for next to nothing as few appreciate or want them. As to lenses, in the real world I cannot distinguish the difference between the Elmar and Tele-Elmar even when projected on a 2m x 2m screen and viewed with Trinovid. With Minolta CLE or M7 on the back, to automatically adjust for the bellows extension, it is a universal kit. Have fun. Justin Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted March 12, 2007 Share #11 Posted March 12, 2007 Using the forum search-engine ("Tele-Elmar" / "Elmar") should lead you to photos, system-overviews, numbers, bellows etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telewatt Posted March 13, 2007 Share #12 Posted March 13, 2007 The Tele-Elmar was one of the best lenses built by leitz... ..they are quite cheap on ebay and leica needs 33 years to get a "little" better lens to build.... ..it was so fantastic.. regards, Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted March 13, 2007 Share #13 Posted March 13, 2007 About the TE: There is only one thing you should not expect too much. Directly against the sun with reflecting surfaces in the unsharp background (like water). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telewatt Posted March 13, 2007 Share #14 Posted March 13, 2007 About the TE:There is only one thing you should not expect too much. Directly against the sun with reflecting surfaces in the unsharp background (like water). like the Apo-Telyt 3,4-180mm.... ...for me the same fingerprint, but a little bit softer... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 13, 2007 Share #15 Posted March 13, 2007 The Tele-Elmar was one of the best lenses built by leitz... ..they are quite cheap on ebay and leica needs 33 years to get a "little" better lens to build.... ..it was so fantastic.. regards, Jan You've said it: in term of sharpness, definitely BETTER than the 135 2,8, that also has of course problems of weight/dimensions owing to the goggles. I like the Tele Elmar also when mounted onto the CL... nice esthetic proportions body vs. lens... it focus right... pity the viewfinder You have to mount... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted April 5, 2007 Share #16 Posted April 5, 2007 I stumbled upon a 135 Tele Elmar that came with a Viso III and bellows at a local camera swap and purchased it I have been very impressed with its optical quality for doing macros and have an adapter on order to use it with the Viso without the bellows ...the lens is extremely sharp and free of distortion, at least for the limited macro photographs I have done with it here is a link to some of my early efforts with it http://www.leica-camera-user.com/nature-wildlife/20871-dianthus-two-orchids.html I am eager to see how this will work with the Viso on the M8 thanks to all the Viso-ologists here who have offered their advice about this remarkable device that expands the utility of M cameras Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted April 6, 2007 Share #17 Posted April 6, 2007 The lens head of the Elmar 1:4/135 can be removed from its focusing mount. To then use it on the Visoflex II you will need the following: 14 071 Helical focusing mount (Elmar 1:4/135 lens head to Visoflex I) OUBIO or 16 466 Adapter (Visoflex I lenses to Visoflex II) The 14 071 is very very rare. Mine is the only one I have ever seen and don't be mislead by being advised the short focusing mount for the Hektor f = 13.5 cm 1:4.5 can be used. The Elmar lens head will fit it but not focus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted April 7, 2007 Share #18 Posted April 7, 2007 but I want to get my 135 Tele Elmar head to work on my Viso III I picked up a 16 466 adapter now I need to confirm that the 14 071 will work with it if it can, I will get it, rare or not I don't relish the idea of using the bellows to focus this lens for doing other than macro work & it seems too fine a lens to use only for macro work Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubice Posted April 7, 2007 Share #19 Posted April 7, 2007 Arthur, In what you have is the Tele-Elmar 4/135mm (and not the Elmar 4/135mm), you need the following: 16464 focusing adapter - this will take the head of your Tele-Elmar directly and allow focusing from infinity to 35" (about 90cm) 16471 extension tube will mount between the 16464 and the head of the Tele-Elmar and will let focus in the 35" to 27" range. The catalogue page that Luigi posted above, refers to the Elmar 135mm, which used different focusing adapters. All the best, Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted April 24, 2007 Share #20 Posted April 24, 2007 Have a Visoflex III. Just bought a "mint -" 135 tele-elmar from e-bay. Head is spinning, but happily, contemplating the hurdles to use it. Think I'll get the bellows + adapter for macro. best.....Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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