azzo Posted February 17, 2007 Share #1 Posted February 17, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, Which lens would you get for the same price between these 2 ? The price is not the issue but the performance is. Anyone experienced both lenses ? Thanks, Azzo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Hi azzo, Take a look here 50mm 'cron or 50mm lux pre ASPH. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
abrewer Posted February 17, 2007 Share #2 Posted February 17, 2007 Hi Azzo. I've owned both (briefly). If they were similarly priced I'd go for the extra stop and the lush bokeh of the 'Lux. It's really not much bigger (if at all) than the 'Cron, which if I recall correctly may flare under certain conditions more readily. Who you really need to talk to is LCT and William. They're the lens gurus whose advice I usually follow. Thanks. Allan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vol72 Posted February 17, 2007 Share #3 Posted February 17, 2007 I think it depends upon your need for 1.4 and close focusing. I would go for the Summilux if I could get a late version Summilux pre-asph in good shape for the same price as a like-condition current Summicron. You will have a 1 stop benefit, and by F4 I doubt you would see any differences between the pre-asph 'lux and the 'cron. The earlier 'lux focuses to 1 meter in the near range and does not have the harder coatings. As always, my advice is to try before you buy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted February 17, 2007 Share #4 Posted February 17, 2007 Azzo I have both. Mine are the E43 2nd version Summilux (without the useless slide-out hood of the later model) and the rigid Summicton (manufactured in 1957). Both are wonderful and I would have a hard time choosing between them. I don't like the current Summicron; it is cold and cuttingly sharp. I also have the 75mm Summicron which is also very sharp but is somehow kinder to people. I have heard the current Summicron described as "relentless" and I think that's a good adjective. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted February 17, 2007 Share #5 Posted February 17, 2007 I have owned and used both for a considerable time. First however keep in mind that there are TWO pre-ASPH. Summiluxes. The first, of 1959, was really just an improved Summarit (1949) which was a coated Xenon (1936). Its performance was mediocre even then. The second variety was introduced under conditions of deep stealth -- and this is one of the most bizarre chapters of the Leica story -- under the same name and in the outwardly identical mount in 1962, and then continued without optical change except of course improved coating, until it was replaced in 2004 by the current aspherical Summilux. (Which I own now.) The second version started at # 1,844,001. This was probbly the best 1.4 standard lens ever produced by 'classical' technology, and the optical gnomes of Solms had to pull out all stops in order to further improve on it -- aspherics, exotic glass and floating elements. As Alan pointed out, it had and has very nice bokeh, and is remarkably resistant to flare and reflexes. This said, definition off axis was never as high as with the Summicron, especially the current computation. Stopping down improved things, and while the lens is more than usable wide open, it is very good indeed at 4.0 and excellent at 8.0. In fact, if your work does not require critical definition across the entire full frame field, you could do very well with this as your only standard lens. One limitation is closest focus at 1 meter only. The aspherical 'lux, though, is a good at 1.4 as the 'cron at 2.0 in the usual MTF field, and far superior to especially the 'cron in the matter of resistance to reflexes and flare (stray light). This of course is something that you can't read out of MTF graphs, but it is really important in practical photography. The old man from the Age of Meniscus Lenses Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted February 17, 2007 Share #6 Posted February 17, 2007 last week I could see a 50mm Lux blackpaint in my shop. The focusring was a pleasure to work with. This lens I was told was froma special set of a M6 in 2000. This lens would be my choice disregarding that the painting will show the wear much sooner than black chrome. Bernd Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted February 17, 2007 Share #7 Posted February 17, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think it depends upon your need for 1.4 and close focusing. I would go for the Summilux if I could get a late version Summilux pre-asph in good shape for the same price as a like-condition current Summicron. You will have a 1 stop benefit, and by F4 I doubt you would see any differences between the pre-asph 'lux and the 'cron. The earlier 'lux focuses to 1 meter in the near range and does not have the harder coatings. As always, my advice is to try before you buy. I did peciselly that about two years ago, I went out looking for a used current Summicron and came home with a (very) late Summilux non asph. for less money than I had expected to pay for the Summicron. I had it on appro at first, and did some very subjective comparisons with my first type rigid Summicron, and decided to keep it, occasional use at 1.4 has been worthwhile and it has a bit more contrast than the old Summicron. I agree about the hood, with a UVa filter on its virtually useless. Maybe I would exchange it for the asph. one if I can afford it one day. Gerrry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted February 17, 2007 Share #8 Posted February 17, 2007 ...I went out looking for a used current Summicron and came home with a (very) late Summilux non asph. for less money than I had expected to pay for the Summicron...Gerrry I guess a lot of people sold their pre-asph 50 'Lux when the new one came out and that's why their market value is less than the 'Cron.... Does seem a bit odd when you think about it. Thanks. Allan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 17, 2007 Share #9 Posted February 17, 2007 I have a Summicron and 50/1.4asph. The Summicron will go for sale. Some years ago I had borrowed a 50/1.4 pre-asph and allways liked that lens. Its sharp and smooth, and personally, if you get it for the same price, I dont see big reason to go for the Summicron. Get the lux Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted February 17, 2007 All comments are pointing towards the 50 'LUX PRE ASPH. They are both very well priced and both belong to a friend and both in MINT condition. It seems stupid to let both go. Thanks to ALL. Azzo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 17, 2007 Share #11 Posted February 17, 2007 Comparison of Summilux-M 50/1.4 #11868 and Summicron-M 50/2 #11819 on the Epson R-D1 at 200 iso. As far as sharpness is concerned i don't see significant differences from f/2.8 to f/16 but the Summilux looks a bit sharper at f/2. Pics 1 & 2 : 50/1.4 full frame and 100% crop at f/2 Pics 3 & 4 : 50/2 full frame and 100% crop at f/2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemeng Posted February 18, 2007 Share #12 Posted February 18, 2007 No-one appears to have mentioned this yet, but I assume we are talking about M Rangefinder lenses :?) At one stage I had both a 1992 tabbed-cron 50mm, and a 1989 E43 'lux. Kept the Lux, for much the same reason as others noted above: better flare handling & gentler contrast, resulting in "smoother" images. Both issues are important to me as our Australian sun is particularly harsh and unforgiving (no soft European twilight here!) BTW instead of using the super-conspicuous "#12586" hood, I bought a cheap E43 vented metal hood from eBay trader "Heavy2Stars". Stupid name, but the hood screws in securely and works well enough. For more details, see the lenshoods topic I have in the FAQ I maintain at: Leica FAQ - Lens hoods for the 50mm? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 18, 2007 Share #13 Posted February 18, 2007 Hi, Which lens would you get for the same price between these 2 ? The price is not the issue but the performance is. Anyone experienced both lenses ? Thanks, Azzo. I have both, but personally prefer the Lux, not for the plus stop, but for general rendering: I do not enter in deep tech explanations: simply looks to me slightly better; I must also precise that my Cron is old (1.986.334) and seems to me that design or at least glass type has evolved in the years... my Lux 50 is older again, but anyway of the 2nd type, that seems not changed until the advent of the asph (which I shall buy, some day...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatboy Posted February 19, 2007 Share #14 Posted February 19, 2007 LCT, what a great subject to use. I love the Atmos clocks. This one looks superb. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted February 19, 2007 Share #15 Posted February 19, 2007 yes this clock is like a Perpetuum Mobile. Bernd Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 19, 2007 Share #16 Posted February 19, 2007 Not that perpetuum i'm afraid. This one is out of gas and i don't find the time to send it in for a refill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted February 19, 2007 Share #17 Posted February 19, 2007 my father got such a clock as a birthday gift. After ten years it was cleaned and adjusted and is running now for more than eight years without any problems. The only point is to open and close the doors to wind it up... Bernd Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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