spylaw4 Posted September 16, 2009 Share #21 Posted September 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) In London, Aperture sold a mint- M8 within one day, at £1550. I expected to find two or three in their lists by now, but not so far… Ahh but what did they pay for it? £1000? It's not what it sells for, it's what you get for it if you trade-in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Hi spylaw4, Take a look here Used m8 value has not dropped. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted September 16, 2009 Share #22 Posted September 16, 2009 Ahh but what did they pay for it? £1000? Probably more than that. They may have taken it in part-ex against an M9 and are making most of the money from the deal on the M9 itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted September 16, 2009 Share #23 Posted September 16, 2009 But right now think the clincher for me is this: I'm pretty sure I'd regret no longer having the special look and colors of the M8 - and I'd have to sell that camera to afford the M9 I'm fascinated by the bit I snipped above - have you posted more on this elsewhere and I missed it? I happen to agree about the M8 look, but my M9 experience is limited to using the demo at the local introduction (saving files onto my card for future reference). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted September 16, 2009 Share #24 Posted September 16, 2009 Well, he does hold very still (dead a long time ago). I am starting to salivate over the M9. C'mon eBay brethren. Then, c'mon Leica rep! Oops, apologies Bill, this message was addressed to Wilfredo. (it's just a private joke) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted September 16, 2009 Share #25 Posted September 16, 2009 Probably more than that. They may have taken it in part-ex against an M9 and are making most of the money from the deal on the M9 itself. I don't think Aperture sell new Leica gear. Ffordes seem to be stacking up used M8 bodies at the moment (most probably on commission sales). The prices being asked seem a bit unrealistic to me. I will probably shortly flog one of my M8 bodies and have assumed a selling price of less than the one at Aperture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 16, 2009 Share #26 Posted September 16, 2009 I'm fascinated by the bit I snipped above - have you posted more on this elsewhere and I missed it? I happen to agree about the M8 look, but my M9 experience is limited to using the demo at the local introduction (saving files onto my card for future reference). I got 45 minutes with it last Saturday, with no-one breathing down my neck. Images indoors and outdoors alongside my M8 with my Noctilux using a filter on the M8 and without on the M9. The indoor portraits with the M9 were spoiled by my embarrassment at not nailing the exposure manually (the metering is slightly different than any other M I've used), but i took my time with the outdoor images, and these were useful. I'm going back to test indoors again sometime next week. The test was totally unscientific, I have to add - just me and the two cameras, handheld and with slightly differing parameters in some of the shots (I could isolate rather better with the M8 because of the faster shutter, for instance). Now there is no way that you can get the best out of a camera in such a short time. That can take weeks or months (or decades indeed). But I wanted to get a feeling for myself whether I would be wowed enough to rake my bank account and just go for it. Most of my favorite shots are film + Noctilux: there's just something magical in the fall-off and the overall feeling in so many of those images. I was hoping both that this would be it, and at the same time that it wouldn't (because that would save me a lot of heart-ache and money). My conclusion was this: (anticlimax approaching - and I don't mean this to be patronising) everyone should test for themselves! Way too many people are apparently making this momentous decision on the basis of some compressed jpegs online and saying that they see 'better colors' or 'more dynamic range' in an oversaturated sRGB image that's 800 pixels wide. At least you have some DNGs on your card to look at, some people just put their name straight on a list (and if they have the money, and full-frame is what they want, then great!) To cut a long story short, if I can afford the camera without stretching myself, and without (at least beforehand) needing to sell the M8, then I may go for it at a later date, and see if I can tease something better than I saw from my short time with it now. The worst outcome for me would be to jump into the hysteria of buying the new model at the expense of having to sell the old, and then regret it afterwards as much as I do selling my film cameras. Btw: I just have to add, that some people don't even need to see a jpeg for it to be "confirmed that the M9 is an incredible camera", they apparently just need to hear that someone else thinks so. No disrespect to the people in that thread - I respect their word and their work - but I can't help feeling there's some wishful thinking going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted September 17, 2009 Share #27 Posted September 17, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for taking the time to post that - interesting reading. Comparing the files I got, I don't see a big difference (under the circumstances I as in - an old indoor loft with cr@ppy mixed lighting) but I've spent all of about 10 minutes so far comparing in C1. (I worked almost 120 hours last week.) Not helping my own comparison is the fact that I had my 3E on my M8 and shot the demo with its already-mounted 35mm Summicron ASPH - but I think for some of what you and I are talking about that may not matter as much as it might for other purposes... As far as FX/FF goes, there is a lot of uncritical thinking out there. Some folks never shot more than one format in their lives, it appears. I got 45 minutes with it last Saturday, with no-one breathing down my neck. Images indoors and outdoors alongside my M8 with my Noctilux using a filter on the M8 and without on the M9. The indoor portraits with the M9 were spoiled by my embarrassment at not nailing the exposure manually (the metering is slightly different than any other M I've used), but i took my time with the outdoor images, and these were useful. I'm going back to test indoors again sometime next week. The test was totally unscientific, I have to add - just me and the two cameras, handheld and with slightly differing parameters in some of the shots (I could isolate rather better with the M8 because of the faster shutter, for instance). Now there is no way that you can get the best out of a camera in such a short time. That can take weeks or months (or decades indeed). But I wanted to get a feeling for myself whether I would be wowed enough to rake my bank account and just go for it. Most of my favorite shots are film + Noctilux: there's just something magical in the fall-off and the overall feeling in so many of those images. I was hoping both that this would be it, and at the same time that it wouldn't (because that would save me a lot of heart-ache and money). My conclusion was this: (anticlimax approaching - and I don't mean this to be patronising) everyone should test for themselves! Way too many people are apparently making this momentous decision on the basis of some compressed jpegs online and saying that they see 'better colors' or 'more dynamic range' in an oversaturated sRGB image that's 800 pixels wide. At least you have some DNGs on your card to look at, some people just put their name straight on a list (and if they have the money, and full-frame is what they want, then great!) To cut a long story short, if I can afford the camera without stretching myself, and without (at least beforehand) needing to sell the M8, then I may go for it at a later date, and see if I can tease something better than I saw from my short time with it now. The worst outcome for me would be to jump into the hysteria of buying the new model at the expense of having to sell the old, and then regret it afterwards as much as I do selling my film cameras. Btw: I just have to add, that some people don't even need to see a jpeg for it to be "confirmed that the M9 is an incredible camera", they apparently just need to hear that someone else thinks so. No disrespect to the people in that thread - I respect their word and their work - but I can't help feeling there's some wishful thinking going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted September 17, 2009 Share #28 Posted September 17, 2009 {snipped} Btw: I just have to add, that some people don't even need to see a jpeg for it to be "confirmed that the M9 is an incredible camera", they apparently just need to hear that someone else thinks so. No disrespect to the people in that thread - I respect their word and their work - but I can't help feeling there's some wishful thinking going on. Such is the way of the Internet, Mani. Consequently, I just have to add this to balance your that: First, it depends on who that "someone" is telling me how good the camera is. It's called ethical credibility. Offhand, I can think of 20 or 30 people I trust completely in both their understanding of the issues, their experience and their photographic ability who could tell me "x is an incredible camera" and I'd believe them. There's always a YMMV with any recommendation, even if one doesn't want to hear that. Next, there's a lot of us who've had an M8 in particular (but also many other digicams) for years now, and have processed tens of thousands of shots professionally with the M8 alone. Speaking personally, I love my M8; it's been fabulous, even through all the changes and challenges It's worth pointing out, though, that there are also quite a few M9 DNGs out there now. I've never seen an M9 JPEG that I care to comment on (except for processing reasons), but the DNGs I've seen so far are quite convincing to me that Leica's got a worthy successor to the M8--and maybe even a truly great camera--on their hands with the M9. So when some of the long-time M8 users and posters here start printing large and saying "hmm. There's something to this M9 thing"--especially this early on in the life-cycle, when people are usually finding bugs--then probably people with a lot less M digital experience probably should take serious notice instead of hinting at fantasy thinking or wish fulfillment on the part of people who have actually used the camera Yes, everyone here wants Leica to succeed, and some of us are optimists, even. But we're not blind. Of course, YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 17, 2009 Share #29 Posted September 17, 2009 Probably more than that. They may have taken it in part-ex against an M9 and are making most of the money from the deal on the M9 itself. Aperture only sell used equipment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 17, 2009 Share #30 Posted September 17, 2009 Aperture only sell used equipment. Fair enough, I'll pick up the dunces' cap (again!) and walk to the corner of the room. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted September 18, 2009 Share #31 Posted September 18, 2009 Such is the way of the Internet, Mani. Consequently, I just have to add this to balance your that: First, it depends on who that "someone" is telling me how good the camera is. It's called ethical credibility... Yes, everyone here wants Leica to succeed, and some of us are optimists, even. But we're not blind. Of course, YMMV. Hi Jamie - I missed your post until now. Must say I'm a little sad to see you snipped the part of my post that appeared negative. I added that extra comment on the spur of the moment because of some profuse gushing on the other section which I personally felt was ridiculous - regardless of the source of the original endorsement. To me the 'comedy' is in human nature, and is nothing to do with the virtues of the M9, or any other camera for that matter - that is what made me shake my head in wonder, not some assumed criticism of the camera. It seems to me that the M9 is an amazing engineering feat - a full-frame camera that many thought was physically impossible to produce. I think Leica is an amazing and admirable company, also. I genuinely hope the M9 re-invigorates the market for Leicas and I'm sure it'll be an awesome success which we will all benefit from. Having said all that, what I've seen myself does not reflect some of the hyperbole that's been showered on the camera. Furthermore, as an M8 owner (in some senses an asset that I may want to convert into funds towards another camera at a later date*) I object to some of the statements I've seen and read about supposed quantum leaps in IQ, color and DR. I just haven't seen the evidence myself and sometimes I've said so - though I feel I'm pretty much done on that score. I'm impressed by the much improved IQ at higher ISOs - though this hasn't been a major problem for me with the M8. Adan has posted one of the few direct comparisons that pretty much match my experience here. Those users that need full-frame for it's greater wide-angle possibilities obviously need look no further than the reference jpeg, that contains the entire building within the composition. Otherwise a very close look at the detail shots is interesting. The question is whether the differences in the details are significant to the overall image, and I'm not sure one way or the other yet. Please don't take any of my statements personally. Best, //Mani * note: this is NOT how I see my cameras - but nevertheless... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted September 18, 2009 Share #32 Posted September 18, 2009 {snipped}Please don't take any of my statements personally. Best, //Mani Mani--nothing personal, and thanks for taking the time to respond. In truth, it's early days for the M9, and I'm just impressed so far with what I've seen. None of that takes away from the fact that the M8 is still an awesome camera! I guess I'm just as sick of some folks judging from the JPEGs on the Web as you are... though the ones that get me are the usual expressions of discontent like the M9 produces shots that "look like a cellphone cam" or "that are worse than a digital Rebel" based on looking at quick shots in compressed JPEGs from pre-production camera firmware The whole gist of your post was right on the money, and there's a lot of good news out there for digital M users, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaS2 Posted September 18, 2009 Share #33 Posted September 18, 2009 Regarding pricing of used M8s: My original plan was to keep my M8 when a FF ever came out. Then I would have a true backup, and a nice second camera for keeping a 75mm on regularly in a fast shoot. I skipped the 8.2 option as it was not enough change for the money, but a fine camera if one was just coming on board. Now suddenly, I have two photographer friends who want to come into Leica for the first time. One wanted to buy my used M8 if I would sell, then saw the reviews on the M9, could afford the reach, and ordered a M9. The other is hoping I still will sell my M8 to them. Net, I suspect that there are going to be more people who want DRFs either new or used. The fact that the M9 doesn't make the M8 look bad will help M8 prices. I suspect the prices will hold for quite awhile, thanks to demand. Oh, and who is selling an M8 before they have a M9 in their hands? Given the demand vs supply for M9s, there will be awhile before more M8s come on the market. And the X1 for $2,000 makes a used M8 with changeable lenses look pretty attractive at $3000. Net comment: The M8 made Leica users happy. The M9 will bring in the last of the Leica film shooters, but more importantly, expand the user base of Leica and DRF. And new M users will buy lenses. The lenses are like crack. And lenses, the used ones are a better investment than gold today. Besides, you can use lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted September 18, 2009 Share #34 Posted September 18, 2009 Aperture is listing another M8 (with spare battery) for £1.5k: Leica - Aperture uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted September 18, 2009 Share #35 Posted September 18, 2009 Aperture only sell used equipment. and they are selling the PX'd cameras taken in by Leica Mayfair. AFAIK. A lot of M8's will be cleared by them, if that's right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 19, 2009 Share #36 Posted September 19, 2009 Sounds like an M8 is worth around £1500 in P/EX, an M8.2 £2100 and an upgraded camera somewhere in between. £1200 of upgrades increases the resale value by £300. I can think of one M8 that's worth even less than that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawain Hewitt Posted September 19, 2009 Share #37 Posted September 19, 2009 Sounds about right. Yes this does make the ugrades seem like poor value. I've been particularly wondering about the sapphire screen. To me it only makes sense to have a sapphire screen if you're going to have the camera for a very long time. I'm still feeling very pleased with my £1999 brand new M8 which I bought in June, even with movement in prices still feels like good value. I've noticed a lot of cheap ir filters appear on fleabay over the past week. They used to be tough to find second hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 19, 2009 Share #38 Posted September 19, 2009 Aside from losing the 1/8000 (interesting that the M8c now the only one of 4 Digital Ms - M8c, M8u, M8.2, M9 - to have a 1/8000 shutter speed), the upgrades transform the camera and I think will eventually drive down M8c prices. It's as Leica wanted of course - the creation of a secondhand market with a spectrum of pricing options to draw users in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted September 19, 2009 Share #39 Posted September 19, 2009 It's as Leica wanted of course - the creation of a secondhand market with a spectrum of pricing options to draw users in. Stephan Daniel's comment on the video about used Porsche 911s speaks volumes in that regard. And if Leica intends to solidify and expand the DRF user base by leveraging the used M8-series bodies as an entry point, that may also point towards some kind of commitment to service and repair -- as long as non-Leica originated components remain available. (There are a few people that can't quite grasp the concept that used M8s are the CF-D. It's become clear to me that the DRFs in the M8/M9 echelon are Leica's #1 camera priority and they are not going to do anything with their product lines to erode that. My guess is that the S2 is the #2 priority, and that the X1 is planned to be #3. 4/3 is dust in the wind, and red dot Panasonics will be #4.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerard Posted September 19, 2009 Share #40 Posted September 19, 2009 I bought an M8.2 today (two months old with clean passport) for £2.2k. Seems like this will set a benchmark in the UK. Hard to believe the owner traded it in for less than that after such a short period of ownership for an M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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