sek Posted September 21, 2009 Share #81 Posted September 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I got to handle a dummy X1 at the dealer yesterday. Basically it's a highend point and shoot like a Ricoh GR-D with an APS-C sensor. --- It's probably the best of it's breed, but also the most expensive. At $1999 it's almost twice as expensive as the Panasonic GF1 and then you still have to add the 35mm brightline finder, which knowing Leica will probably cost between $300 and $450 dollars. (VC makes a great 35mm finder for $150) The X1 is NOT the entry level M (CL-D) everyone has been waiting for. It's a highend P&S. I would buy an X2 that had the RF unit from the CL and a manual focus 35mm lens. I would prefer f2, but that would probably never happen, so I would settle for a 2.8. I wouldn't care if the lens was fixed. They could also make a version with the equivalent of a fixed 50mm. Interchangeable lenses would be great, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I've never thought that a CL-D would be a threat to the M9. - APS vs full frame - Lower MP count (12MP vs 18MP) - The RF unit would be good, but not as good as the M-series. - Limited set of framelines (35/50/90 or 28/35/50/75) - If it had a fixed lens, it would not have the flexibility of the M-series. D300 sales have not killed the D700. D700 sales have not killed the D3 or D3x. 50D sales have not killed the 5D-II The 5D-II has not killed the 1Ds-III And then of course they would have to price it in reach of mere mortals. Where's my CL-D, Leica? Well, there are rumors around for a comming M10. The letter "X" stood for 10 in old Rome. Could your wish not be satisfied by comming a Leica called "MX" with M-lens mount? Svend Knudsen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Hi sek, Take a look here Who would like an interchangeable-lense X2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sungnee Posted September 22, 2009 Share #82 Posted September 22, 2009 ...D700 sales have not killed the D3 or D3x. It has for the D3's here in Hong Kong. The D3's are stuck to the shelves like suppliants on an Altar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor1 Posted September 22, 2009 Share #83 Posted September 22, 2009 I want the camera just as shown by Leica and hope it stays this way. So many people are never satisfied with anything. Leica makes plenty of other models that should suit other tastes. This one is just right for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherub Posted September 22, 2009 Share #84 Posted September 22, 2009 i want the camera just as shown by leica and hope it stays this way. So many people are never satisfied with anything. Leica makes plenty of other models that should suit other tastes. This one is just right for me. respect ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted September 22, 2009 Share #85 Posted September 22, 2009 I want the camera just as shown by Leica and hope it stays this way. So many people are never satisfied with anything. Leica makes plenty of other models that should suit other tastes. This one is just right for me. Leica only makes two other cameras. The 5500 euro M9 and 20,000 euro S2. I wouldn't call that a plethora of choices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted September 22, 2009 Share #86 Posted September 22, 2009 It would be called M8 and will be available used in the nea future in alrger quantities. And how does the sale of a used M8 put money in Leica's pocket? You would be laughed out of economics 101 for making a statement like that. On the other hand a CL-D would provide steady sales, as the sensor and electronics are updated every three to four years. Also digital cameras are not like film cameras, where the 'sensor' can be upgraded by buying a new roll of the latest emulsion. 10 years from now an MP will still be a viable camera. The M8 will be a relic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted September 22, 2009 Share #87 Posted September 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) What a shame then. You won't get one. Watch the video. If Leica does not obtain enough revenue from the sales of new cameras and lenses, you'll get your wish and will all be buying used Leicas, because that is all there will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted September 22, 2009 Share #88 Posted September 22, 2009 1. How is a CL-D going to be less expensive than a used M8? Forget the used M8's. Two years from now it will be a relic. Would you buy a 5 year old PC or Mac? This is not a film camera. 2. How is a competent CL-D going to be significantly less expensive than a new M9? (How do you propose to save $3,000 to $4,000?) Smaller, mass produced sensor. Simpler RF unit Less extravagant fit & finish and materials. M-mount but also a line up of APS-C only lenses. 3. What did the "used Porsche 911" reference in the video mean? Haven't watched the whole thing, yet. 4. It is becoming clear that the M body series (MP, M7, M8, & M9) has been reaffirmed as the cornerstone of the Leica camera brand. How will development and introduction of a CL-D do anything but chip away at that cornerstone? Leica may be the only camera company on the planet that does not have a tiered product line. Actually Leica may be one of the only companies period, that does not have a tiered product line. Everyone from Rolls Royce to companies making cookware sell a broad selection of items in staggered price categories. The M9 and S2 are expensive to develop and only appeal to a narrow income bracket. They need a high-quality, but more reasonably priced alternative as a cash cow. There would be plenty if differentiation between a good APS-C based CL-D and the M9. D300 -> D700/D3 ->D3x CL-D -> M9 -> S2 I'm not including the X1, because it's a high-end P&S. This is pretty basic stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 22, 2009 Share #89 Posted September 22, 2009 Reality X1 -> M9 -> S2 ....................you can shoot all you like in your dreams but there will be no image to post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted September 22, 2009 Share #90 Posted September 22, 2009 Reality X1 -> M9 -> S2 ....................you can shoot all you like in your dreams but there will be no image to post. True, but ultimately that doesn't really have an effect on me. I still primarily shoot film and bought a D700 for color work, because Leica had no competitive offering in their lineup. I may not be shooting with my ideal camera, but Leica lost out on a sale worth several thousand dollars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 23, 2009 Share #91 Posted September 23, 2009 Understood and agreed but did things change with the advent of the m9? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted September 23, 2009 Share #92 Posted September 23, 2009 I see 2 possibilities for X1 given a wiley manufacturer 1/ a flash socket mounted VF, a/ that is about half the length of the top deck b/ that allows the popup flash to shoot through a window c/ that transports the flash socket wiring to another on its top 2/ adapter lenses, tele and WA, much in the sense of Ludicrous Landscapes DMD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2009 Share #93 Posted September 23, 2009 I'm not a marketing guy, but it seems unlikely to me that Leica will ever head down this path because it has too much potential to cannibalise M9 sales. Not if it, the X2, comes out after the M9 has run it's course, IE sold to all that want one new. This will be in 2-3 years. Myself, unless I hit Lotto, I'll be buying a M9 used, maybe. Or maybe a X2 if it has interchangeable lenses. I really can't see myself buying any camera that can only use one fixed focal length lens. I need a camera that is a little more verstile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2009 Share #94 Posted September 23, 2009 Sorry. Should have said "almost killed off Leica", since CL sales ended up cannibalising M5 sales, No, I think you have it a little backwards. The CL saved Leica. Along with the dropping of the M5 and the production of the M4-2. The CL did not cut into M5 sales. M5 sales were bad from the start. The M5 almost killed Leica. This is a known fact. The CL brought money into Leica in both camera sales and lens sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted September 24, 2009 Share #95 Posted September 24, 2009 In my view the X1 looks just like the camera I wished for assuming the final released version has good RAW writing times and minimum shutter lag. Fixed lens is great Sensor size is fine size seems fine AF great Manual operation capability nice Price well not great but... All in all just what I am looking for More exciting for me than the M9 Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted September 24, 2009 Share #96 Posted September 24, 2009 I don't really have a problem with it as is, but would like to see it priced at $1400 or less. $2000 for a point and shoot is very steep. I wouldn't mind seeing manual focus and a rangefinder built in. Also, get rid of the flash and give us a faster lens. Then $2000 would seem a bit more fair. I'll probably buy one anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
msnyc Posted September 26, 2009 Share #97 Posted September 26, 2009 In my view the X1 looks just like the camera I wished for assuming the final released version has good RAW writing times and minimum shutter lag. Fixed lens is great Sensor size is fine size seems fine AF great Manual operation capability nice Price well not great but... All in all just what I am looking for More exciting for me than the M9 Andy I also feel this camera is more exciting than the M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted September 26, 2009 Share #98 Posted September 26, 2009 I think Imants is right this one was nice, why can`t they do a X1 with a lens going into the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 26, 2009 Share #99 Posted September 26, 2009 Let's not forget the limited resources of Leica, already engaged in M9 and above all S2 (which has yet to give returns to them) : I think they will wait to see if the X1 concept, as it is now, proves to be succesful : if it's so (hope for them , personally I like the camera even if won't buy it), they can plan to arrange a product line of its own from it... and to give a wider choice of focals would be a primary goal, be it through zoom or interchangable lens mount (this, imho, would be fine to be a M-mount... the risk of cannibalizing M line would be very low). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2009 Share #100 Posted September 26, 2009 100% agreement with andym911's post. Outside of l-camera-forum.com only 90% agreement with his quote from the 6th century. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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