where is the solution for "R" glass users?

[dkCambridgeshire]

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Dunk,

 

The SD-15 will use the same Fovean X3 sensor as the SD-14 but will also use the new Sigma 'True II' parallel processor with 3 individual cores, one dedicated to each colour channel to speed up processing. While this seems like a good idea it appears that the cores do not always synchronize well and vertical striping artifacts can occur and have already been noticed in pictures from the Sigma DP2, which uses the same processor.

 

Pete.

 

Sigma has been working on the problem but as 12 months has passed and no solution appears to have been found, time seems to be running out.

 

Cheers

 

dunk

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[gvaliquette]

Just an idea...

 

Leica now has a full frame digital camera, with "in-house" firmware, the M9.

 

Leica also has experience with a digital back for the R9, the DMR.

 

How much investment would it take to develop a DMR-II, full frame, usable on the R8 or R9. And then to restart the R9 production line.

 

A full frame DMR on an R9 is what I see in my dreams.

 

How much would it cost Leica to make it come to reality?

 

Guy

[gvaliquette]

Actually, come to think of it...

 

Using the same sensor as in the M9 would help amortize the cost of sensor development. If I understand correctly, the M9 Kodak sensor was developed FOR the M9.

 

Hey, Leica, how about it?

 

Guy

[storybrown]

Me, too!

[giordano]

Actually, come to think of it...

 

Using the same sensor as in the M9 would help amortize the cost of sensor development. If I understand correctly, the M9 Kodak sensor was developed FOR the M9.

 

Hey, Leica, how about it?

 

The M9 sensor has microlenses optimised for use with M lenses with their short back-focus. So may not be optimal behind R lenses.

 

Also, to place the sensor at the focal plane of the R body, some of the stuff in front of the sensor - IR filter, microlenses and cover glass - would have to protrude into the film gate. Thta's no a problem with the cropped DMR sensor, but a full-frame sensor is slightly larger than full-frame and would need the film gate enlarging, which may nave ramifications for the shutter. Leica say they have used a new shutter on the M9, presumably for this reason - even though the M8 shutter appeared large enough for full frame.

[berndr]

Hello,

 

yesterday Mr. Kaufmann has spoken in an interview about the development of new small camerabodies for both the old R lenses and the M lenses. But first there must be some earnings from the new products.

 

Here is the link:

Leica hofft auf Erfolg in der Nische - Nachrichten welt_print - Wirtschaft - WELT ONLINE

 

Google translation:

Google Übersetzer

 

Here the Googletranslation of the interesting part:

"Their own experts are working meticulously on time being entirely new, smaller housings, to set priorities, both to the optics of the adjusted R-series as well as by the M system. But first, the need to bring new revenues - according to the pre-orders dealers are promising, the production is running at full speed."

 

Kind regards,

Bernd.

[gvaliquette]

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The M9 sensor has microlenses optimised for use with M lenses with their short back-focus. So may not be optimal behind R lenses.

 

Also, to place the sensor at the focal plane of the R body, some of the stuff in front of the sensor - IR filter, microlenses and cover glass - would have to protrude into the film gate. Thta's no a problem with the cropped DMR sensor, but a full-frame sensor is slightly larger than full-frame and would need the film gate enlarging, which may nave ramifications for the shutter. Leica say they have used a new shutter on the M9, presumably for this reason - even though the M8 shutter appeared large enough for full frame.

 

Modifying the sensor microlenses for retrofocus wides and other R lenses is not an issue.

 

Yes, there needs to be some "stuff" in front of the focal plane of a digital sensor. I would settle for a 23 X 35 mm "quasi full-frame" format, or, better yet for Leica, send the R9 back to Solms for retrofitting a larger film gate in the R9 for the DMR-II and also buy an insert for the modified R9 to bring the larger gate on the modified R9 back to 24 X 36 mm with the film back.

 

It's all very doable and would bring money in twice for Leica: when I buy the DMR-II and when I send my R9 to Solms for modification.

 

Guy

[EJohnE]

I bought a new 5D-II body 1st October this year. It is excellent for high ISO performance and resolution of detail. My reason for this purchase was that Leica reneged on its “full frame” DSLR, thus leaving me with two working (& one shutter-dead) film Leica-R cameras and a heap of excellent lenses. After reading that spares were no longer available for the DMR, I reluctantly gave up thoughts of buying one of those.

 

It was either a 5D-II or Nikon D700. The Canon advantage was that adaptors could use the unmodified lenses, whereas the Nikon would require a Leitax mount for each lens: so I bought the Canon. I had been given a new Novoflex R-EOS adaptor, and bought a couple of chipped ones from Singapore. For my purpose of using manual focus lenses, the Canon purchase was a mistake. For those with good vision it may be a good platform for Leica lenses.

 

My eyesight is not the best, nor is my hearing. After using the 5D for a week or so, I looked through the manual to find out how to turn on the focus-confirming beeper and the information display in the viewfinder. They were both already on! I eventually made out very dim, small green figures under the viewfinder image: and, if I put my ear to the speaker, I could actually hear a high-pitched squeak. As for the focus-confirming green blob – well that is just about invisible to me. I have no trouble seeing the data in the R8, R3, Olympus E-1, E-300 or E-330. I looked through a Nikon D-something at a dealers, and could also easily read the data display in that viewfinder.

 

The problem is solvable by using Liveview, but that defeats the quick use of the camera. The “S” screen also is better for focussing f2.8 or faster lenses.

 

Canon seems to be looking only ahead, and has no interest in “legacy” lenses, whereas Nikon's mount can take and use 1950s vintage lenses. Therefore it would seem to have more regard for manual focussing than Canon.

 

If your vision is less than 20/20, I suggest Nikon has a better solution for using Leica lenses, even though they are no longer usable on an R body without lots of hassle.

 

(I did think of sending this diatribe to the Canon forum on DPR, however their bad-tempered mafia would assasinate me!)

[adan]

I think some people still don't "get" what the problem is with the R line, and why it will never be revived.

 

Take a good hard look at your R lenses and R bodies (if you still have them) and notice how much of the communication and operation is based on mechanical connections. A feeler or two in the camera to follow the lens cam(s) and link the aperture to the meter; a lever in the camera to push a lever in the lens to stop down the aperture at exposure, or for DoF preview.

 

This stuff is just very expensive to produce, and antiquated. Compared to the S2, and the Sony/Minolta and Canon SLRs, which use electrical connections and signals to/from the camera processor to handle all this communication and actuation.

 

It is much, much cheaper, and simpler (once one knows the basic programming), to do this via electric signals - which is why Canon and Minolta revised their mounts 25 years ago to work this way.

 

Yes, some R lenses are ROMmed - or can be - but they still depend on a mechanical link to push the stop-down lever in the lens - and that link, as small as it seems, just makes for a very fiddly, expensive construction process. Especially if it is "hand-made" instead of snapped together by robots.

 

Understand that on the one hand, I love those old all-mechanical devices. But I used Nikon Fs without meter prisms for years, which meant only one link (the stop-down lever). I remember being - intrigued - the first time I looked into a Canon F-1, with a feeler pin to read the lens' max. aperture, another to read the set aperture, a slot for a lever from the accesory AE prism to set the aperture in an early example of autoexposure, plus the stop-down lever. Same for the lens mounts.

 

Like Canon and Sony (and eventually Nikon, no doubt), Leica has moved on to a simpler paradigm based on electronic links and actuations for their main-line SLR. And the R lenses have no place in that paradigm.

[lct]

... For my purpose of using manual focus lenses, the Canon purchase was a mistake...

Did you try Haoda or Brightscreen focus screens? I'm using a Brightscreen screen with an eyepiece correction lens on my 5D1 and this combo works fine from full aperture to f/5.6 more or less depending upon vignetting of the lenses.

[lct]

The point is not to build old R lenses again IMHO. It's just to do what others are doing actually. Why can't i use my R lenses on a Leica digital body where old Nikkors work fine with new Nikon bodies? I don't see anything technical in the answer personally.

[farnz]

John,

 

I second what LCT said. I, too, am using a Brightline screen (horizontal split image with the ring of diamonds) on my 5D II with Leica R lenses and it makes a huge difference for focussing accurately.

 

Having said that, much of my shooting is of largely stationary objects and for that Live View with its 3" 920,000 pixel LCD screen and the ability to double-zoom into the zone of focus and micro-adjust focus completely solves focussing problems for these subjects. The LCD screen's brightness is amplified for dark images so it's no problem to set focus with the lens stopped down too.

 

Pete.

[EJohnE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJohnE View Post

... For my purpose of using manual focus lenses, the Canon purchase was a mistake...

Did you try Haoda or Brightscreen focus screens? I'm using a Brightscreen screen with an eyepiece correction lens on my 5D1 and this combo works fine from full aperture to f/5.6 more or less depending upon vignetting of the lenses.

 

Thanks, LCT and Farnz for suggesting the Brightscreen. I have fitted a Katzeye screen on the E-1, and that certainly is a vast improvement. As Katz do not supply screens for most Canons, I will order a Brightscreen for the 5D-II. The metering cells in the E-1 are above the screen, which with the centre focus aids, grossly overexposes the image . I generally use an external meter rather than mess around with histogram after the event. Is there any marked metering problem with the Brightscreen?

 

Trying to find my guide dog with my white stick, Thanks, John.

[jsrockit]

Why can't i use my R lenses on a Leica digital body where old Nikkors work fine with new Nikon bodies?

 

Because Leica chose not to make a digital 35mm style SLR?

[SteveYork]

Despite what Leica said, I doubt there will ever be a Leica sponsored solution for R users (other than what is already out there). There's no longer any practical market, because too many have already jumped to Nikon and Canon.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Despite what Leica said, I doubt there will ever be a Leica sponsored solution for R users (other than what is already out there). There's no longer any practical market, because too many have already jumped to Nikon and Canon.

 

If Leica can formulate a digital R solution there are probably still enough R lens users (including DMR users) to make it viable. Leica have hinted there are currently three possible digital R solutions .. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/106332-new-q-session-stefan-daniel.html . The fact they are considering same suggests they have done the necessary market research. However, Leica are probably far too busy with the X1 and maybe other future X camera projects, plus the S2 of course, to allocate scarce resources (in the broadest sense) for any digital R project at present.

 

Cheers

 

dunk