elgenper Posted September 9, 2009 Share #201 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry, that retractable lens blew it for me. Too fragile. I´ll go on with my Digilux 2 (happily) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi elgenper, Take a look here X1 discussion thread (merged). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
giordano Posted September 9, 2009 Share #202 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi Giordano: Sorry, but I have to disagree. I rather have a "state-of-the-art" EVF instead of an OVF, hands down, especially for RF cameras - no more parallax problems and different focal length VF's. Manual focusing can be achieved by having a focusing digital line instead of a split-screen, a lot like the EV line, in many cameras. In addition, you get to see, in the VF, what you get in the LCD screen. Not to mention, having different display screens, like live view, info screen, and many others just by pressing a well placed button; you will never have to take your eye off the EVF. My second choice would be another a "state-of-the-art" EVF . In principle I'm all in favour of EVFs, except that a bright-line OVF lets you see outside the frame too, which for many shots is important. In practice, the latency, refresh rates and dynamic range aren't there for me yet. EVFs OK for static subjects in easy light, but if there's a lot of contrast I can't see the details in the shadows or highlights or both (depending what the AGC is doing) and especially in dim light they always lag vital milliseconds behind the action. In short I want an EVF that gives sharp unsmeared images at 50Hz refresh rate in candle-light ... and we're not there yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 9, 2009 Share #203 Posted September 9, 2009 Sorry, that retractable lens blew it for me. Too fragile. I´ll go on with my Digilux 2 (happily) I think for me too - fragile, drains the battery, and there's the time lag from switching on and waiting for the lens to do its stuff before you can focus/shoot. Shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hektor6644 Posted September 9, 2009 Share #204 Posted September 9, 2009 In short I want an EVF that gives sharp unsmeared images at 50Hz refresh rate in candle-light ... and we're not there yet. Hi John: We agree. I'm also waiting for that day. It should be here soon, but not soon enough for the X1 . BTW, the OVF for the X1 ~ $350 . Half the price I paid for the D-Lux 4 . The X1 seems to be a very good camera, but I have to wait on the reviews. Best regards, Ramesses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchs Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share #205 Posted September 9, 2009 Sorry, that retractable lens blew it for me. Too fragile. I´ll go on with my Digilux 2 (happily) Yes, this disappoints me too. But it also confirms that the design department took the ancient Leica I as their inspiration, and revamped the idea of a collapsible lens. I hate collapsible lenses though.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 9, 2009 Share #206 Posted September 9, 2009 I'm guessing the telescoping lens was necessary to move the lens element far enough away from the sensor in order to use the 1:5 size. The question is whether or not the compromise is worth the IQ we'll see with the sensor. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 9, 2009 Share #207 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Welcome to the X1 ... and look forward to the X2 ( 21mm lens): and X3 (18mm lens) :;) ... and will be much more usable and faster than the DP1 and DP2 Cheerio !! dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted September 9, 2009 Share #208 Posted September 9, 2009 Yes, this disappoints me too. But it also confirms that the design department took the ancient Leica I as their inspiration, and revamped the idea of a collapsible lens. I hate collapsible lenses though.... Well, it´s not the same; I´m old enough to have owned and used several old screw-mount collapsibles, from a 1936 Summar to a 50´es Summicron. And, while one occasionally forgot to pull them out, they were NOT especially "fragile" in either position. Also, once you pulled them out and locked them, they stayed out. Forever, if needed. No timed power-down, with that obnoxious whirring sound when you least want it, no wait for it to return... I own, use, and actually like the D-Lux 4. But that one I can put in a pocket, I can zoom it, and it´s one step faster, so I take the retraction as an inevitable compromise. But this is a camera that needs a (small) bag, not a pocket one. There´s absolutely no sense in having the retraction to save a couple of centimeters in thickness when it introduces so much hassle. I was willing to go back to having just a 35 mm (eq) fixed lens; it´s even a healthy dose of shooting discipline (), I could live with an accessory finder & c. But, that yoyoing lens is a deal-breaker for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted September 9, 2009 Share #209 Posted September 9, 2009 It really looks like the X1 is a collaboration between Leica and Nikon with the electronics made in Japan and the camera assembled in Germany. Interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 9, 2009 Share #210 Posted September 9, 2009 Well, it´s not the same; I´m old enough to have owned and used several old screw-mount collapsibles, from a 1936 Summar to a 50´es Summicron. And, while one occasionally forgot to pull them out, they were NOT especially "fragile" in either position. Also, once you pulled them out and locked them, they stayed out. Forever, if needed. No timed power-down, with that obnoxious whirring sound when you least want it, no wait for it to return... I own, use, and actually like the D-Lux 4. But that one I can put in a pocket, I can zoom it, and it´s one step faster, so I take the retraction as an inevitable compromise. But this is a camera that needs a (small) bag, not a pocket one. There´s absolutely no sense in having the retraction to save a couple of centimeters in thickness when it introduces so much hassle. I was willing to go back to having just a 35 mm (eq) fixed lens; it´s even a healthy dose of shooting discipline (), I could live with an accessory finder & c. But, that yoyoing lens is a deal-breaker for me. Can't say I'm thrilled with the "compromise." But it is a necessary evil given the size of the sensor. This hitch probably also explains the lack of analog aperture control on the lens barrel too. The sensor spacing is a significant, however. Even your D-Lux 4 is shifting into shooting position first... then adjusting further for it's potential zoom. It is a distraction, none-the-less. I won't disagree. Hopefully the build quality will take fragility into consideration. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2009 Share #211 Posted September 9, 2009 I own, use, and actually like the D-Lux 4. But that one I can put in a pocket, I can zoom it, and it´s one step faster, so I take the retraction as an inevitable compromise. But this is a camera that needs a (small) bag, not a pocket one. There´s absolutely no sense in having the retraction to save a couple of centimeters in thickness when it introduces so much hassle. I was willing to go back to having just a 35 mm (eq) fixed lens; it´s even a healthy dose of shooting discipline (), I could live with an accessory finder & c. But, that yoyoing lens is a deal-breaker for me. Why not do what most people I know do with the D-Lux4? Keep the protection ring=lens hood on at all times? I've ordered mine, and hope, that by then they'll have the catalog number for the lenshood. Don't know if it takes M batteries or not, nor did I find any exact data about the lag time (the only counting for me: shutter press - pic take in manual focus). Looks like a cam making the dealer confident to say: "You can tell if you don't like it anytime before or the day after you receive it and you don't need to keep it. Not a problem with this one!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASO Posted September 9, 2009 Share #212 Posted September 9, 2009 Let´s face it the X1 is not a replacement of the D2. It´ll produce brilliant lotos I´ll have no doubt, but it´ll be an amusing and usable walkabout for the professional or a great status symbol for the secretary. It´ll be available in a lot of colours which all look less sexy than John T´s brown or Develeo´s red little jewels. All I wanted was a great lens (zoom or primes) with a sunhood, focusing and aperature ring. Something to hold, play and deal with. Plus a slightly larger sensor. I was hoping for a way to start using m or r like glass. Since thats for keeps and not the box behind it. As an amateur I can´t justify an M9, so I´ll buy a second hand M8 and spent succesive cash on the lenses instead of € 2000 on an X1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoutman Posted September 9, 2009 Share #213 Posted September 9, 2009 anybody seen some official brochures on the x1 yet ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchs Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share #214 Posted September 9, 2009 Well, it´s not the same; I´m old enough to have owned and used several old screw-mount collapsibles, from a 1936 Summar to a 50´es Summicron. And, while one occasionally forgot to pull them out, they were NOT especially "fragile" in either position. Also, once you pulled them out and locked them, they stayed out. Forever, if needed. No timed power-down, with that obnoxious whirring sound when you least want it, no wait for it to return... I own, use, and actually like the D-Lux 4. But that one I can put in a pocket, I can zoom it, and it´s one step faster, so I take the retraction as an inevitable compromise. But this is a camera that needs a (small) bag, not a pocket one. There´s absolutely no sense in having the retraction to save a couple of centimeters in thickness when it introduces so much hassle. I was willing to go back to having just a 35 mm (eq) fixed lens; it´s even a healthy dose of shooting discipline (), I could live with an accessory finder & c. But, that yoyoing lens is a deal-breaker for me. Per, I own and use regularly a IIIF with 50/2 collapsible Summitar. I own also several Leica I both with standardized (several iterations) and fixed lens, and a share of Elmar 50's. My (dis)appreciation of collapsible lenses is merely aesthetic. I also use two Ricohs GX100 and GX200, and their retractable lenses are ugly and sometimes time consuming. By the rest, I completely agree with every word you wrote, but in my case, if IQ and high ISO performance is worth it, I will try to accept the compromise of an ugly buzzing retractable lens... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted September 9, 2009 Share #215 Posted September 9, 2009 There seems to be a dedicated X1 sub-forum but it doesn't seem to be visible from the main forum yet: Leica X1 Forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2009 Share #216 Posted September 9, 2009 Welcome to the X1 ... and look forward to the X2 ( 21mm lens) and X3 (18mm lens) ... and will be much more usable and faster than the DP1 and DP2 Cheerio !! dunk Cheerio to your X3 (18mm lens) It'll be mine, too! Though I'd prefer a X4 (15 or 16mm) So they'll provide for each one of us a different converter Leica apo asph super-duper 400-500, not yen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleran Posted September 9, 2009 Share #217 Posted September 9, 2009 For me, the X1 is a disappointment. Beautiful machine, excellent, but $ 2000 are too many for a compact camera with fixed optic. Also have only 35 mm I think it is a limit, from this point of view I prefer the Digilux2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveleo Posted September 9, 2009 Share #218 Posted September 9, 2009 my X1 comments, copied over from another posting .... the X1 = nice big sensor area + iso3200 ! looks a lot like my ancient iiif .... ... possibly nostalgic in that regard .... i see no resemblance to the M-class. i also (as others) dislike the extending/contracting lenses. strap lugs are HORRIBLY placed way forward of c.g. ...... the camera will rock back on your hip (like my Bessa-T's). torch the popup flash (pop-up flash, why??? ) and install a viewvinder (fixed lens.... this is easy!!) truth be told, i would *not* do an even swap for my D2, to get one of these. i will wait for the *reduced-size* D2.x with the 24-60mm / f2.8-3.2 (which is a rumor i just started). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted September 9, 2009 Share #219 Posted September 9, 2009 Can't say I'm thrilled with the "compromise." But it is a necessary evil given the size of the sensor....The sensor spacing is a significant, however. Even your D-Lux 4 is shifting into shooting position first... then adjusting further for it's potential zoom. .. John, as you´re the very person to know, the Digilux 2 doesn´t need any such antics, nor does the M9 with an even larger sensor and an equivalent lens. All it takes is a couple of centimeters to build and mount that lens permanently "extended". Why not do what most people I know do with the D-Lux4? Keep the protection ring=lens hood on at all times?.. Well, as soon as you do, you get those extra centimeters anyhow, and protect the lens mechanism against your own fingers, but you still have that whirring and waiting. Far simpler to do it right from the start. Actually, I´m mightily disappointed; that´s why I keep ranting..... As soon as I saw that leaked brochure, I decided to get the X1 asap, but when I saw the video today with that lens erection show just like any cheap p/s, I was turned off. Too bad, but I probably use the money for the 20/1.7 - 45/2.8 combo for my G1 instead. Since I still need to carry a small bag.... And, I still have that incredible Digilux 2! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinse Posted September 9, 2009 Share #220 Posted September 9, 2009 Hopefully this will come true. In an article written on the website of ColorFoto it is mentioned that in the future there might be X-cameras with zoom or interchangable lenses. Colorfoto, das Magazin für digitale Fotografie - colorfoto.de Leica "Für die Zukunft schließt Leica weitere X-Modelle mit Zoom- oder Wechselobjektiven nicht aus." Now that makes it interesting. At the moment, with a fixed lens, I am absolutely not interested. I just cannot do with a camera that has only got a 24 mm lens. That is just rediculous to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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