earleygallery Posted September 9, 2009 Share #221 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Another thought..... no filter thread for filters or hoods - I guess the 'focus ring' which isn't for focussing unscrews and you stick a bit of plastic pipe onto it, and fix your filters to that. I love the collapsible lenses on my lllf and M2, but I decide when to collapse them (and there's no batteries to drain). I can understand why Leica designed it the way they have, but they should have been more daring and stuck with convention IMHO, manual focus ring, manual aperture ring, fixed position lens (or manually collapsible for compactness). Maybe they didn't want to put off those people upgrading from more typical digital cameras, by following the normal trends. It's still an interesting camera, and I'm sure it will do well for Leica, but it doesn't make me want to raid my savings and e bay some of my other stuff to get one now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here X1 discussion thread (merged). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
John Thawley Posted September 9, 2009 Share #222 Posted September 9, 2009 John, as you´re the very person to know, the Digilux 2 doesn´t need any such antics, nor does the M9 with an even larger sensor and an equivalent lens. All it takes is a couple of centimeters to build and mount that lens permanently "extended". Nope... that is not true. The distance is no different than projecting onto a screen with a projector. You have to have the distance. With the M9 it is a specially developed sensor (as I understand it) EXCLUSIVE to the M9. Translate: EXPENSIVE to the M9. The issue lies with getting light to outer areas of the sensor at as straight an angle as possible. This has been helped my the sensors that have little bubble like lenses built in to them... so it can straighten the light at the corners. But that still has sever restrictions. The fact is, there is a physical triangular equation that must apply to the current sensor technology in order to render enough light. Heck, my 5D MK11 even has software built in to automatically adjust the corner lighting based on the Canon lens you have mounted. The Digilux 2 sensor is TINY compared to the X1. It is using a 7mm lens to equate to 28mm. Not even remotely close to the physical requirements of the X1. Also, consider the thickness of the Digilux 2 body... the X1 might 1/2 the depth. I'm not defending the situation... but I do believe it's a necessary evil. But to have more than double the pixels spread over better than triple the physical area can ONLY mean positive results to the image quality. I'm afraid at this point and time w/ technology and the associated costs in getting this camera to market, we're stuck with the telescope. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bussta Posted September 9, 2009 Share #223 Posted September 9, 2009 Has anyone read reidreviews review on the X1 and seen the samples yet?? I'm not a member but want to know what it does well etc, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hektor6644 Posted September 9, 2009 Share #224 Posted September 9, 2009 Hi John: I have a quick question. Do you know if the X1 lens comes with a filter thread? Thanks, Ramesses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroSimao Posted September 9, 2009 Share #225 Posted September 9, 2009 I tend to agree with Ed's post above, but we need to see detailed specifications to be sure. I would hope that Leica have worked hard on the AF for example, because if we look at Olympus and Panasonic the EP-1's AF is reported to be as bad (slow) as the GF1's is good (fast). There is also the viewfinder question of course, built -in (it doesn't seem so) or external accessory, either optical or EVF? If the only way to manually focus is at arms length via the rear LCD..... being a fan of my Lumix L1/ Digilux 3 (the best affordable camera money can buy), I regret Leica removed this camera from its catalogue. The magic feel of the aperture ring and the speed wheel in one's hand is not comparable with other DSLR. to be sincere, I do not feel the need of having more than 7.5 Mpixel However, this camera could be improved by, for example, adopting a new processor and the Panasonic's 4/3 12MP sensor of the Olympus Pen and E30, but keeping the aim of the Digilux 3 concept - it feels like no other in one's hands also, I think that the X1 concept, similar to the Sigma DP !or 2, is not as good as the Micro Fourthirds one, like the Olympus Pen and Lumix GF1, due to the fact Leica X1 has no interchangeable lens. I think that Leica should have adopted this concept (interchangeable lens) in the X1, or make a Micro 4/3 rangefinder with an affordable price (€ 1000 to €1500 more expensive thant the concurrent cameras, like Olympus Pen - it's a Leica!), similar to the X1's. This would be an outstanding camera! to finalize, one question: will Leica give up in the 4/3 DSLR range? I think this would be a bad decision, due to two aspects: 1- the fabulous R-system is over, and Leica has no DSLR not rangefinder camera in the 4/3 or APS-C range 2- the S-system is not affordable for the amateur market, as obvious However, the new M9 is an outstanding camera. I'm waiting for the reviews and hoping to buy one in the near future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroSimao Posted September 9, 2009 Share #226 Posted September 9, 2009 Let´s face it the X1 is not a replacement of the D2. It´ll produce brilliant lotos I´ll have no doubt, but it´ll be an amusing and usable walkabout for the professional or a great status symbol for the secretary. It´ll be available in a lot of colours which all look less sexy than John T´s brown or Develeo´s red little jewels. All I wanted was a great lens (zoom or primes) with a sunhood, focusing and aperature ring. Something to hold, play and deal with. Plus a slightly larger sensor. I was hoping for a way to start using m or r like glass. Since thats for keeps and not the box behind it. As an amateur I can´t justify an M9, so I´ll buy a second hand M8 and spent succesive cash on the lenses instead of € 2000 on an X1. and I think you'll do great Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 9, 2009 Share #227 Posted September 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I keep thinking about this camera, probably because it was the kind of thing I've thought for ages that Leica are best to produce. I can see why they've made certain decisions - the fixed focal length, focus and aperture dials, live view etc., its just that I feel a bit sad that they've so closely missed in having a real classic and unique product. If only they hadn't spend so long on the phone to Frank I could have given them my input Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted September 9, 2009 Share #228 Posted September 9, 2009 Nope... that is not true. The distance is no different than projecting onto a screen with a projector. You have to have the distance. ...... The Digilux 2 sensor is TINY compared to the X1. It is using a 7mm lens to equate to 28mm. Not even remotely close to the physical requirements of the X1. Also, consider the thickness of the Digilux 2 body... the X1 might 1/2 the depth. I'm not defending the situation... but I do believe it's a necessary evil. But to have more than double the pixels spread over better than triple the physical area can ONLY mean positive results to the image quality. I'm afraid at this point and time w/ technology and the associated costs in getting this camera to market, we're stuck with the telescope. JT John, I think we misunderstand each other here. Yes, the sensor is bigger, and presumably they´re not using the advanced solution with gradually decentered microlenses that the M9 has, so there must be a greater distance between the lens and sensor than should be necessary for a 24 mm lens on a film body: that´s how I understand your argument, and I have no quarrel with that; it´s physics. But (to clarify my argument): obviously the lens does work when extended (), so why not fix it out there permanently and get rid of the collapsing mechanism? Obviously the camera would be thicker than now, but I feel that´s no problem when one needs a bag anyhow. We both handle the Digilux 2 daily, and I consider it very "baggable", even with the lens hood and the "double depth body". I don´t think the X1 with extended lens comes even close to the Digilux with its rigid lens in girth. And that is a size that many of us (us 2 included) are willing to live with in a compact camera with exceptional IQ and analog controls. We could have gotten it with the X1 along with the large sensor, hi ISO performance, and immensely faster raw write time. But that yoyo lens just isn´t it; I´ll stay with the Digilux, it´s still the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo035 Posted September 9, 2009 Share #229 Posted September 9, 2009 Something like the Viogtland mini finder (28-35mm) would be very clever and would fit right into the design. except it is virtually useless for anyone wearing "specs'/ aka eyeglasses - I speak from experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bussta Posted September 9, 2009 Share #230 Posted September 9, 2009 except it is virtually useless for anyone wearing "specs'/ aka eyeglasses - I speak from experience This is probably cheaper than the dedicated Leica version and looks smaller too making it fit ore as you say, also there is a Sigma one as used on the Dp2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted September 9, 2009 Share #231 Posted September 9, 2009 On the X1, is there any way to ABSOLUTELY force the flash OFF for either single exposures or until you bring it back on? I only see options for forcing the flash on. Most of the time I would want the bloody thing OFF. -g Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveleo Posted September 9, 2009 Share #232 Posted September 9, 2009 after a few hours now, i am warming up to the x1..... in addition to the mini-finders that Thorsten showed, cosina/voigtlander makes an excellent 35mm finder (i use on my Bessa-T's) ... it is extremely bright.... would look good on the X1. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/95541-x1-discussion-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=1025603'>More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 9, 2009 Share #233 Posted September 9, 2009 my X1 comments: the X1 = nice big sensor area + iso3200 ! i also (as others) dislike the extending/contracting lenses. strap lugs are HORRIBLY placed way forward of c.g. ...... the camera will rock back on your hip (like my Bessa-T's). torch the popup flash (pop-up flash, why??? ) and install a viewvinder (fixed lens.... this is easy!!) I fully agree with you as the far as the non rigid lens for no good reason at all is concerned. There should be at least an option to block it in working position for good. Looks like a classic M39 and goes zzz-zzz!?! Leica could have saved considerable cost , by having just one strap lug on the shutter release side for a wrist strap. But then, would the X1 be soo cute?!? Let's be serious. I think, that as soon as PICTURES TAKEN WITH THE X1 will be available, it should be easy to decide how to spend one's two grand. On a second hand M8 body with a 3 years old chip design? Since you have film M, lenses would be for free, OK. I would not buy any a second hand DIGITAL body or second hand autofocus lens ever, unless I know the seller, for example as someone with less time than money or loving cameras more than shooting, or so. While M lenses (R and Contax lenses, too) are interesting from the second hand market IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted September 9, 2009 Share #234 Posted September 9, 2009 But (to clarify my argument): obviously the lens does work when extended (), so why not fix it out there permanently and get rid of the collapsing mechanism? Obviously the camera would be thicker than now, but I feel that´s no problem when one needs a bag anyhow. We both handle the Digilux 2 daily, and I consider it very "baggable", even with the lens hood and the "double depth body". I don´t think the X1 with extended lens comes even close to the Digilux with its rigid lens in girth. I understand. And you're right. They're probably trying to be cute giving it a "vintage" look when parked. I'm with you. For me, they could have given it a more vintage look by hanging it out there with a focus barrel and a aperture ring. AND a nice tiny machined sun shade while we're at it. Like I said, let's hope the construction is beefy and see how it fares. The image quality is the deal maker / breaker for me. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davephoto Posted September 10, 2009 Share #235 Posted September 10, 2009 My Minilux, for it's lack of aesthetics and boxy-exterior, has some physical advantages over the X1. It has a single eyelet for the wrist strap. (Perhaps that's just my personal preference as I never use a neckstrap, even with my SLRs.) There's a built-in viewfinder which, despite receiving many rants from users for being too tiny, I found it very usable with its confirmation LED and far preferable to the EVF of my D2. The ideal thing would have been for the X1 to have the same big and bright viewfinder of my diminutive Contax T3. The Minilux's built-in, non-pop-up flash is the most powerful and accurate flash in any compact 35mm camera I've used. The potential drawback of the Minilux is the infamous E02 error - which thankfully has not happened to me yet (knock on wood) - that is related to the mechanism which controls the collapsible lens. I believe Leica fixed this problem with the CM - which I've not used - but I guess the potential for malfunction with a moving part in the X1 is still there. For me, most of the flaws being discussed on this forum are speculative and I still find the X1 to be the most exciting and compelling compact digital currently on the market. Things like having manual shutter and aperture knobs, and exclusive buttons for frequently used functions (egs., white balance, ISO) wrapped in a sub-300g package evince the fact that this camera was designed by photographers. All in all, I find the X1 to have the very features that many of us in this forum have long been wishing for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishima Posted September 10, 2009 Share #236 Posted September 10, 2009 Hi all. Leica finally reveal the new X1.. Besides the sensor size, what is the biggest different between X1 vs D-Lux4? I kinda find these specs similar... Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 10, 2009 Share #237 Posted September 10, 2009 Besides the sensor size, what is the biggest different between X1 vs D-Lux4? The sensor size is the most important difference and essentially makes these two cameras incomparable. Besides, the X1 has a completely different layout of controls that can't be found in any other compact camera currently on the market. No disrespect, but everybody who looks at the pictures of the X1 and the specs and doesn't immediately realize that it's a world apart from the D-Lux4 is likely not in the target group for it anyway... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krabat Posted September 10, 2009 Share #238 Posted September 10, 2009 ....I´ll go on with my Digilux 2 (happily) So will I. The X1 isn't the camera I've been waiting for. Regards, Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishima Posted September 10, 2009 Share #239 Posted September 10, 2009 The sensor size is the most important difference and essentially makes these two cameras incomparable. Besides, the X1 has a completely different layout of controls that can't be found in any other compact camera currently on the market. No disrespect, but everybody who looks at the pictures of the X1 and the specs and doesn't immediately realize that it's a world apart from the D-Lux4 is likely not in the target group for it anyway... Great. thanks for your feedback Nhabedi. Now im more interested to know the PRICE!! Im pretty sure it'll cost around double the price of DLux-4... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted September 10, 2009 Share #240 Posted September 10, 2009 Now im more interested to know the PRICE!! Im pretty sure it'll cost around double the price of DLux-4... Price in Germany will be 1550 Euros including 19% VAT. At least you can pre-order it at that price from Meister in Hamburg, for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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