Leica refuses to confirm M9 launch...

[Jamie Roberts]

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Hm, you dont mind the overly yellow/olive-ish greens and the turquois blues then? Or is there a profile available to correct these abberations in the DMR colour response? I'm talking RAW conversion C1 generic profile.

 

Hmmm indeed

 

Yes, the current C1 for DMR profile isn't a patch on the old one. Personally, I use the FlexColor profiles in C1. They actually work (as do Phase's own profiles for Kodak-based sensors). How Phase messed this up (it's only in recent releases) is beyond me.

 

Both the Flex Color and the Phase profiles give me fabulous greens (not overly yellow--I know exactly what you're talking about) and proper blues / cyans, so you might try that. One thing I'll say about even the default C1 DMR profile is that it's still better than LRs magenta on skin

[jl4069]

Jamie,

 

Always great reading your perceptions on color (well image in general). Do you have any thoughts on how Fuji and Foveon succeed or do not in comparison to these Kodak sensors? Do you think that Kodak simply does color the best of any sensor maker? thanks, J

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[Jamie Roberts]

Jamie,

 

Always great reading your perceptions on color (well image in general). Do you have any thoughts on how Fuji and Foveon succeed or do not in comparison to these Kodak sensors? Do you think that Kodak simply does color the best of any sensor maker? thanks, J

 

J--a bit of a thread hijack, but...

 

I don't know if Kodak does the best sensors overall but there's certainly a case to be made that they know colour pretty well. The fact that many a high-end camera relies on Kodak colour technology is pretty meaningful to me, and there are times when I'm fighting colour from a Nikon or a Canon and the DMR and M8 are just so much superior with colour and much easier to get where I want them for print.

 

I've never had the chance to play with a Foveon in depth, though I've always wanted to. It's impressive technology; maybe someday they'll make a camera (or someone will make one for them) that I want to buy

 

As for Fuji, I really don't know enough to comment, except to say that some wedding colleagues of mine still shoot Fuji "S" series cameras, and swear by them. FWIW (not much probably) I've always been pretty impressed with the colour from a lot of little Fuji cameras (and like Kodak, they do know colour; I like the Fuji ColorKit profilers and tools very much).

 

Except for the profiler, that's not saying much in professional terms though, and neither Fuji nor Foveon have broken into high resolution spaces really or MF chips to my knowledge. I don't know why Foveon hasn't been able to increase the pixel resolution of their 3-colour system, but it appears they've hit a brick wall...

[photoarne]

Jamie, thanks for the tip, I'll give FlexColor profile in C1 a try. Particularly the yellow/green problem has bothered me and kept me from using the DMR much lately in spite of the otherwise fine quality of the files.

[jeff_clegg]

Yes- go to manual, flip the mirror up, adjust exposure and go back to Visoflex operation. The reason is that, if one is a bit fast shooting with the Visoflex, the exposure metering sometimes is unable to keep up and will produce the odd overexposed frame.

 

That makes sense. Another way would probably be patient and allow for the the exposure to complete itself. Rumor has it that on the M9, that provisions will be made for using existing R lenses. Maybe a Visoflex IV may be in the offering that hopefully will be operating by the camera's electronics. I guess I am dreaming again.

Thanks,

Jeff

[stunsworth]

Rumor has it that on the M9, that provisions will be made for using existing R lenses

 

As far as I'm aware that's possible with any M. Not many people have chosen to go down that route.

[adan]

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Sandy, "Off the shelf" means the precise product already exists and is being built for sale when I walk into the shop for the first time. I reach up and take it off the shelf without asking for any special features or design considerations.

 

If Kodak took specs from Leica and put staff hours into designing something to suit those specs that was not previously in their catalog - that is not "off the shelf".

 

From the chart you linked to: until Kodak made the 10500, no Kodak sensor included all of the following:

 

10.5 MP, 3970 x 2646, 6.8-micron pixels, 31.7mm diagonal, 2.4 fps.

 

Much more was new about the 10500 than the offset microlens pattern.

[sandymc]

Sandy, "Off the shelf" means the precise product already exists and is being built for sale when I walk into the shop for the first time.

 

I don't think you understand the semiconductor industry - specialized products like this (and also e.g, Analog Devices' and Burr Brown's signal processing components) usually aren't actually built till there's at least one reasonably sized customer. The cost of getting a device to the point of first silicon is just astronomical. That doesn't mean they're not off the shelf. The way it works is that a company develops technology that can produce e.g., a 6.8u sensor with dynamic range of x, noise performance of y, etc. Then a set of "paper products" that can be built on that technology (so e.g., cropped sensor, 10.7MP, FF sensor 16MP, etc) are shown to as many possible potential uses as possible. If a user bites, then that particular part is built, and becomes available as a catalog item.

 

It doesn't take much to be the lead customer for a new device btw - one of the companies I co-founded was once lead customer for a new A/D converter, and at the time we had all of 10 employees and about $5 million in sales(!) Of course, that ended in tears, the product was delayed 8 months, but sometimes that's the way it goes.

 

Sandy

[Julian Thompson]

My dealer told me their IS an announcement on 090909 - don't know how he knows or if he's guessing but I am fairly sure he doesn't read this forum so it must have come from somewhere...

[jacobh]

There are quite a lot of people who have not bought the M8, partly because of the crop factor.

 

 

That certainly includes me. I considered the choice of the crop sensor a compromise that I did not like.

[J Mitchum]

 

The 09/09/09 date was just something I made up in early July, when the rumours of an M9 in the Autumn started to surface. As I have said before, it's too good an opportunity to miss, from a marketing point of view. Maybe too obvious, but what the hell. I'd like to see a Ridley Scott "1984" quality advert to go with it...

 

Rumours have since come from the Far East, and a French Magazine, well known for being more right than wrong in their inside information. Add the Sammy's in LA day on 10/09 (which may just be a coincidence, and I don't buy the "Can't happen because the reps would be in New York the day before", argument. Reps would have been told about this by now, not the same day), and a picture starts to develop.

 

 

We live in an age where CNN quotes from people's blogs and lets viewers do the reporting. You could very well be the source of these rumors.

[J Mitchum]

That certainly includes me. I considered the choice of the crop sensor a compromise that I did not like.

 

Same here. I will buy a digital M if and only if it has a full frame sensor.

[andybarton]

We live in an age where CNN quotes from people's blogs and lets viewers do the reporting. You could very well be the source of these rumors.

 

The rumours of an Autumn announcement were abroad before my post in July, and I am sure that I'm not the only person who recognised the date as a great opportunity

[pascal_meheut]

Don't know if this has been posted here already but the M9 can be pre-ordered in a french shop. 18Mpix, FF, 5500€, available september 09.

I'm the first to be surprised by this and I would dismiss it if I did not knew the owner. And he is the one who got me a DMR easily and the M8 the first day they were for sale worldwide.

 

Anyway, if this is true, I do not know how to reconcile this with Stefan Daniel's recent comments nor how Leica managed to do it in parallel with the S2.

 

I do not care that much for he 18Mpix but I'll be glad to use my 28 and 35mm on a FF. And I'll regret the 50mm not being a good portrait lens anymore (I'll use the 75mm frame and crop maybe).

I just hope we will gain at least 1 f-stop in high-iso. A clean 1600 would be good.

[gwelland]

Don't know if this has been posted here already but the M9 can be pre-ordered in a french shop. 18Mpix, FF, 5500€, available september 09.

 

Hmm, should someone set up a place holder for the shock, outrage and vitriol that will now ensue if the price truly is 5500 euro or $7800? If the recent S2 forums are anything to go by it's time to pick your grandstand seat for the ensuing bitching, moaning, threats to dump the system, etc etc etc.

[jaapv]

What would be so bad about 5500 Euro? Highish, but it is within 10% of current M8.2 price, and the original M8 cost 4200 Euro at introduction and had a high point of 4795 Euro.

Edited August 10, 2009 by jaapv

[adli]

Don't know if this has been posted here already but the M9 can be pre-ordered in a french shop. 18Mpix, FF, 5500€, available september 09.

 

 

Hm, a camera that is not yet announced by the company that is supposed to produce it, is available as a pre-order in a not named french shop?

 

Will it be delivered by Santa?

[jaapv]

Delivery in September has been implicated by several sources.

[adli]

Delivery in September has been implicated by several sources.

 

If that happends, I will stand corrected, but until then, I have a hard time believeing that a comsumer available camera will hit the street in one month, when no one even have seen a prototype yet.

 

Also a bit strange to pre order a camera that Leica don't comfirm?

Edited August 10, 2009 by adli

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[gwelland]

What would be so bad about 5500 Euro? Highish, but it is within 10% of current M8.2 price, and the original M8 cost 4200 Euro at introduction and had a high point of 4795 Euro.

 

I'm not the one doing the price bitching ... but it will happen.

 

Personally, if it turns out to really be 18MP and full frame, I'll bite and order one. If I wasn't already bought into the M system though it would be a tougher call.