rob_x2004 Posted July 15, 2009 Share #181 Posted July 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) aha that was the problem I forgot put "***" when other forums usually do it automatically with censured words I know its nit picking but you might as well get something constructive from the thread. Its 'censored', Mr President. Hows the Noctilux adaptor ring for your DiMAGEXt going? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Hi rob_x2004, Take a look here M8 Competition?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tomasis7 Posted July 15, 2009 Share #182 Posted July 15, 2009 I know its nit picking but you might as well get something constructive from the thread. Its 'censored', Mr President.Hows the Noctilux adaptor ring for your DiMAGEXt going? Nocti on DimageXT? I think you got the wrong person Sorry for swearing because just seeing plastic thick 2liter coca cola bottles on ep1 made me crazy. I guess that I have to accept that such things are made. I will not break other´s dreams here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share #183 Posted July 15, 2009 Over the years I have owned a number of Olympus products beginning with the venerable XA.My last Oly was (is) a C8080 8 mpxl prosumer with a wide to moderate zoom. Olympus makes a very fine camera and will never let you down. However, it cannot hold a candle to the M8 in almost any respect you wish to name. But, consider that you can buy the new 4/3 Oly and have enough money left over to to buy a Nikon D300 with lens and have change left over before you approach the cost of a new M8, and the Oly. makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense that is if, and that is a big if, you can do without the M8 bright viewfinder/rangefinder and superior resolution due to a sensor at least 1/2 again as large as the 4/3 format. Personally, even with vibration reduction, I'll never get used to holding the camera way out in front of me to properly frame it as you will have to do with the Oly. It is really like comparing apples to oranges. It's very difficult to argue against this. After about a week of ownership of the Olympus EP1 I decided to return it. I found the camera to be very well built, not at all flimsy, and the files come very close to matching M8 files. The shutter is a delight, sounds beautiful, but because I wear glasses, I had a difficult time focusing the camera. I can see up close without my glasses so I would have to take them off and hold the camera at just the right distance to focus. That just does not work for me. The AF in low light situations is frankly lousy, way too much focus confusion, so I decided it's not the right tool for me. I suspect that in time Olympus will come up with a better product, and this camera will probably suit lots of Leica shutters with good eyesight and M mount lenses, but it wasn't for me in the end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted July 16, 2009 Share #184 Posted July 16, 2009 Frankly, what is being said here about comparison to M8 doesn't make any sense. M8 images cannot be higher resolution since the sensor is only 10MP versus EP-1's 12MP. The larger sensor would in theory produce better low light resolution but there are plenty of examples to show that the M8 low light capability is not even close to the EP-1 so it's larger sensor only reduces the crop factor. Granted the difference in resolution between 10MP and 12MP is not something that is readily apparent. If you argued that it had better color depth or no AA filter to help it compensate against the EP-1's weak AA filter it might create an equivalent resolution image and it probably has higher dynamic range. Once the other testers have submitted their reviews we can see but on resolution the data, so far, does not support the statement. As to using the LCD versus a view finder I can agree that as a personal preference I prefer a viewfinder too but that doesn't make one superior to the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #185 Posted July 16, 2009 Guess the obvious question is whether in terms of usability the thing works as well as the consumer grade 500D and the likes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 16, 2009 Share #186 Posted July 16, 2009 Frankly, what is being said here about comparison to M8 doesn't make any sense. M8 images cannot be higher resolution since the sensor is only 10MP versus EP-1's 12MP. That is not all of the story. Given the small sensor it outresolves the lens by a fair margin. That means that, even if it produces 12 Mp, each light "point" projected by the lens will cover a number of pixels, reducing the effective resolution to (at a guess) 6 Mp or so, depending on the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #187 Posted July 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Whats a photon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 16, 2009 Share #188 Posted July 16, 2009 A kind of very small luminous walnut? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 16, 2009 Share #189 Posted July 16, 2009 Walnut paste must be how it spreads over the light grater:D. How come you didnt out the little red tower? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted July 16, 2009 Share #190 Posted July 16, 2009 That is not all of the story. Given the small sensor it outresolves the lens by a fair margin. That means that, even if it produces 12 Mp, each light "point" projected by the lens will cover a number of pixels, reducing the effective resolution to (at a guess) 6 Mp or so, depending on the lens. On what basis are you claiming that the sensor out-resolves the lenses? Especially, since you can put Leica lenses on the camera. As I recall on some of the lens tests I have seen published the Oly 17mm lens achieves an MTF of 46 to 50 through the sweet area of the lens (f4.0 to f8.0) which should provide greater resolution than the M8 and appears to do so in the image resolution tests using a test target which combines the effect of the lens and sensor on the image produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 16, 2009 Share #191 Posted July 16, 2009 Walnut paste must be how it spreads over the light grater:D.How come you didnt out the little red tower? No time to post the next one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #192 Posted July 17, 2009 Based on my brief experience with the new PEN, it will not out out-resolve the M8 in low light situations such as the photo below. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/89830-m8-competition/?do=findComment&comment=964742'>More sharing options...
barjohn Posted July 17, 2009 Share #193 Posted July 17, 2009 Ok, where is the evidence. Wad this taken with an M8 and if so at what ISO, f stop and shutter speed? Then where is the comparable Pen shot for comparison? I don't yet have a Pen but I owned an M8 and low light resolution is not its forte/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #194 Posted July 17, 2009 Ok, where is the evidence. Wad this taken with an M8 and if so at what ISO, f stop and shutter speed? Then where is the comparable Pen shot for comparison? I don't yet have a Pen but I owned an M8 and low light resolution is not its forte/ Well my friend, our experiences have been different, and I did try the PEN and returned it, and someone else had returned a PEN that same day to the same shop. That might mean something. I have some issues with the M8, but the new PEN was not going to cut it for me, for the reasons I already stated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2009 Share #195 Posted July 17, 2009 Which does, btw, not detract from that being a very nice image. I fail to see why these things have to turn into a p.....g contest. Of course the M8 has weak points, of course the PEN behaves like the small sensor camera it is. So what? If the user is satisfied with his results that is all that counts. If he isn't, well, Wilfredo has shown the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 17, 2009 Share #196 Posted July 17, 2009 Actually, the PEN is part of a retro-trend. Difficult times always bring on outbursts of nostalgia. (factory product shot) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/89830-m8-competition/?do=findComment&comment=964973'>More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share #197 Posted July 17, 2009 Actually, the PEN is part of a retro-trend. Difficult times always bring on outbursts of nostalgia. (factory product shot) LOL, I agree, if it works for the particular individual that's what matters. The truth is that my dream camera only exists in my dreams. That camera is a Leica digital rangefinder, the size of an M2, with M2 frame lines that work with breathtaking compact AF M zoom lenses that magically zoom in and out with perfect clarity in the viewfinder (and what you see is what you get like an SLR). No crop factor either. Now that would really make my day (oh and with a price tag of less than $3500.00). I should also add that it is a camera with the legendary reliability of the early M's, it won't fail you at a critical moment. Dreams... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrycioni Posted July 17, 2009 Share #198 Posted July 17, 2009 Well my friend, our experiences have been different, and I did try the PEN and returned it, and someone else had returned a PEN that same day to the same shop. That might mean something. I have some issues with the M8, but the new PEN was not going to cut it for me, for the reasons I already stated. Padre, If we were going by returned cameras as some sort of measurement - the M8 might have a similar record. Indeed I was in a shop coincidentally when one customers was raising heck about returning and I quote "the M8 piece of junk" and a second was complaining to the owner about her recent purchase of an M8 - asking about an exchange for an MP (her issues seems to be IR filters causing issues for her work, et al). I on the other hand am very happy with both my M8 such as they are. I suggest that not everyone is happy with their purchases and it hardly indicates much proof of anything relevant. Best regards, Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted July 17, 2009 Share #199 Posted July 17, 2009 Willfredo, Somewhere along the way my point was lost. As a lawyer I understand very well the notion of answering the question you want to answer instead of the question that was asked. My question had NOTHING to do with your preference. You may fully prefer the M8 files or the M8 for a variety of reasons, some real and some imagined. My question asked for objective evidence that the M8 had better resolution at high ISO. Having owned the M8 and taken many low light high ISO images I know first hand that the resolution is not very good but that doesn't mean that I can't post process it and create a 4x6 that looks as good as the one you posted. However, when enlarged to 13x19 it falls apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 17, 2009 Share #200 Posted July 17, 2009 Willfredo, However, when enlarged to 13x19 it falls apart. Honestly I have never noticed that and 80% of my prints are A3+ (eq of 13 x 19). Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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