Going Digital DMR or EOS 1DS

[PasMichiel]

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I still am a film user. Still not sure what to do.

 

Will I buy a second hand DMR for my R8 which is still to expensive for what you get (10MP and a crop 1,3)

Or will it be the Canon EOS 1DS Mark I, II or III with the R-Eos adapter with AF-chip (allmost the same price, has more MP and has a Full frame)?

 

What should I do? As we know, Leica is good in it's lenses, but there bodies are not that well. That's why Leica started with help from Minolta with there CL, R5.

They also are very bad with the electronics. That's why they worked with Kodak on there CMOS. It almost was the end of Leica if it was not by working with Panasonic and there Lumix.

Leica had better make Lenses as Sigma did. For other brand bodies. Leica did worked together with Sigma (Vario Elmar 28-70).

 

But... anyone suggestions for what to do?

[wildlightphoto]

I still am a film user. Still not sure what to do.

 

Will I buy a second hand DMR for my R8 which is still to expensive for what you get (10MP and a crop 1,3)

Or will it be the Canon EOS 1DS Mark I, II or III with the R-Eos adapter with AF-chip (allmost the same price, has more MP and has a Full frame)?

 

What should I do? As we know, Leica is good in it's lenses, but there bodies are not that well. That's why Leica started with help from Minolta with there CL, R5.

They also are very bad with the electronics. That's why they worked with Kodak on there CMOS. It almost was the end of Leica if it was not by working with Panasonic and there Lumix.

Leica had better make Lenses as Sigma did. For other brand bodies. Leica did worked together with Sigma (Vario Elmar 28-70).

 

But... anyone suggestions for what to do?

 

You're making several unfounded assumptions. If you want a low cost per pixel, forget Leica. If you believe that more pixels means better pictures you probably should stick with film a while longer. If you believe that the DMR has a Kodak CMOS sensor you need to do a little more research. Has your R8 had electronic problems? It's an electronically-controlled camera.

 

As I see it, your choices are:

 

1) buy a DMR, use your R lenses with a good manual-focus viewfinder, accurate metering, and automatic aperture. Be amazed at the image quality.

 

or, if you want to use a full-frame camera:

 

2) buy a Canon 1-series and adapters for your R lenses. Change viewscreens, use stop-down metering, and if you have certain wide-angle lenses either shave the mirror or modify the lens.

 

3) buy a Canon 5D or 5DII and adapters for your R lenses. Change viewscreens, get the camera body calibrated for accurate manual focus, use stop-down metering, compensate for metering errors at anything other than full aperture, and if you have certain wide-angle lenses either shave the mirror or modify the lens.

 

4) buy the Canon of your choice and replace the R lenses with EOS lenses.

 

5) buy a Nikon or Sony and either modify the R lenses to fit and use stop-down metering or replace the R lenses with Nikon or Sony lenses.

 

I can tell you what's best for me but I can't tell you what you should do.

[PasMichiel]

Has your R8 had electronic problems?

Thanks for your reply. And no, not any problem at all. It works great.

Well the thread was a little sarcastic of me. I started to make pictures when I was 12 years old. It was with a CL. And after that I kept using Leica. So don't know anything else. I never changed brand.

1) buy a DMR, use your R lenses with a good manual-focus viewfinder, accurate metering, and automatic aperture. Be amazed at the image quality.

Well, it’s the choice that I still prefer.

[stuny]

PasMichael -

 

I agree with Doug. Also, many people have commented on how the image quality via DMR outshines the newer cameras with more megapixels and larger sensors.

 

BTW: If you wish to see what the DMR can do go to Doug's site.

[jaapv]

Btw, the electronics on the DMR are not by Leica...

The DMR is hard to compare to any other digicam. It is quirky and temperamental, but of superb quality. At ISO 100 or 200 there is harly a camera that will beat it for image quality and apparent resolution. It certainly outperforms the 1Ds AND 1ds2, the jury is out on the 1DsIII. The images certainly look better to me than any other camera I know, barring MF.

But don't look to it for features, gimmicks and comfort. Although it can be used for photographing hummingbirds in flight, it takes a lot of skill, a high-soeed DSLR might be easier for the average user. On GetDPI there is a whoile thread of DMR images you might care to browse.

Short-term ( a sufficient number of years) service is assured since a couple of weeks ago, but it might get difficult in say five years time, who knows. Otoh, can a D60,10D or 1D be serviced now by Canon? I doubt it.

[pgk]

I have not owned a DMR but I do own 2 x Canon 1DS bodies.

 

Being totally objective about the two possible routes that you can take I would personally look very carefully at your existing Leica R lens line up (and any potential lenses that you might wish to purchase) and see how many are usable without major modification on the 1DS. Assuming that they are mostly usable then I would consider cost. Given that you say that you are still a film user then the 1DS route is a far cheaper route to take but does suffer from the disadvantages already listed - I've tried using R glass on my Canons and its ok depending on what you are doing, but it is slower than using Canon lenses or R lenses on an R8. Image quality at low ISO is very good from the 1DS although shadow problems kick in quite quickly if you try to lift shadow detail. I personally find the Canon interface to be far less intuitive than either Leica R or Nikon, but you do get used to it.

 

I too considered a DMR and whilst there are a few still available they seem to have become sparser in the marketplace and they still command quite high prices. 1DS cameras are plentiful, have dropped to very affordable prices and are very robust. In the end I've stuck to my Canons using Canon lenses and an M8 based system using Leica glass.

[PasMichiel]

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Btw, the electronics on the DMR are not by Leica...

The DMR is hard to compare to any other digicam. It is quirky and temperamental, but of superb quality. At ISO 100 or 200 there is harly a camera that will beat it for image quality and apparent resolution. It certainly outperforms the 1Ds AND 1ds2, the jury is out on the 1DsIII. The images certainly look better to me than any other camera I know, barring MF.

But don't look to it for features, gimmicks and comfort. Although it can be used for photographing hummingbirds in flight, it takes a lot of skill, a high-soeed DSLR might be easier for the average user. On GetDPI there is a whoile thread of DMR images you might care to browse.

Short-term ( a sufficient number of years) service is assured since a couple of weeks ago, but it might get difficult in say five years time, who knows. Otoh, can a D60,10D or 1D be serviced now by Canon? I doubt it.

 

 

I don't have to be fast and I like to be in control of what I am doing. I think, when I should choose for Canon I have to shut every thing which is automatic about it. And I'm still not sure the viewfinder is big enough. Even with the EF-chip adapter I think I will miss the splitscreen.

 

I think the low iso quality is a must.

[jaapv]

If you are in the neighbourhood of Rotterdam and let me know (so I can make sure I have it with me at work), you can try out you favorite lens on my DMR.

[Jamie Roberts]

Having used both, I think the DMR is leagues ahead of the original Canon 1ds mark 1.

 

I'd be more likely to consider the 5d2 route, to tell you the truth.

 

But Jaap is also right: at low ISOs, the R8/9/DMR is a very hard camera to beat.

[leicanut2]

Still wonder how long the DMR's will be repairable? This is the only thing that keeps me getting one. You may get one that will last you years or may end up with one that has to be repaired. Remmember it would be hard to find one new one now.

 

Jan

[gdb]

PasMichiel,

 

Just GO FOR THE DMR.

 

In my opinion, this is the best and only choice, by far. Don't think of its repair. Just have it and enjoy it. Maybe its a safe idea to have it checked or tuned up by Leica when you get it, but only if you have some doubts. If you use it normally, it won't crash so easily.

 

Its picture quality will surprise you (especially if you shoot DNG and process them with Capture One).

 

R-lenses on any other body are less pleasant to use because of the smaller viewfinder prism, and because of the fact that you can only use them on manual stop-down metering. Even with focus confirmation adapters, results are far from what an R8 can get.

 

On last September, I went in Israel with a Canon 450D with their 18-55mm zoom (all plastic, but automatic) and my 90mm Apo Summicron with focus confirmation adapter. I can tell you that I never made a really good shot with the Apo. Focusing was OK, but exposure was constantly too high or too low. And when you make such a trip with other people waiting for you in the bus, you finally give up manual exposure, and take conventional souvenir-like pictures with automatic metering.

 

Six weeks ago I found a used R9/DMR like the one I got stolen three years ago, and I took it to a recent trip to Venice. I can't tell you how happy I am with the results. I do not have the talents of many of our forum friends, but I was amazed of the amount of details I found in my pictures once processed (with C1).

 

Don't stop on details like crop factor or 10Mpix. Crop factor just means different focal distances and after some practice, you will choose these "new" fiocal distances exactly as you chose the former ones. The Canon 450D is 14 Mpix on an even smaller sensor....

 

Now that the R-line has been "murdered" by its genitor, don't hesitate: have a DMR. Like many others, I have also been hoping for an R10 and I bought the lenses while waiting. But now it is the R10 or any other so-called "acceptable" solution that will wait for me...

 

Cheers

Gérard

[grduprey]

I have the R8/DMR combination, and while it is large and heavy, similar to the Canon 1Ds series, it is well worth buying and using. As for reliability, My R8 and other previouse R cameras have all been very reliable, The R8 has been perfect with zero flaws since I bought it 10 years ago, and so far my DMR has worked perfectly since having the R8 setup for it. I have tried the Canon/R lens route and hated it - Never Again! Image quality is fantastic, a quick trip to Doug's site will verify this. The R system has had an unearned bad reputation in my opinion.

 

Gene

[PasMichiel]

If you are in the neighbourhood of Rotterdam and let me know (so I can make sure I have it with me at work), you can try out you favorite lens on my DMR.

 

Thanks for the inventation. Tomorrow and thursday I will be in Nieuwerkerk a/d IJssel and will go to Breda after work, so maybe one of the days you have time for it.

[PasMichiel]

Just GO FOR THE DMR.

 

In my opinion, this is the best and only choice, by far. Don't think of its repair. Just have it and enjoy it. Maybe its a safe idea to have it checked or tuned up by Leica when you get it, but only if you have some doubts. If you use it normally, it won't crash so easily.

 

Its picture quality will surprise you (especially if you shoot DNG and process them with Capture One).

 

R-lenses on any other body are less pleasant to use because of the smaller viewfinder prism, and because of the fact that you can only use them on manual stop-down metering. Even with focus confirmation adapters, results are far from what an R8 can get.

 

On last September, I went in Israel with a Canon 450D with their 18-55mm zoom (all plastic, but automatic) and my 90mm Apo Summicron with focus confirmation adapter. I can tell you that I never made a really good shot with the Apo. Focusing was OK, but exposure was constantly too high or too low. And when you make such a trip with other people waiting for you in the bus, you finally give up manual exposure, and take conventional souvenir-like pictures with automatic metering.

 

Six weeks ago I found a used R9/DMR like the one I got stolen three years ago, and I took it to a recent trip to Venice. I can't tell you how happy I am with the results. I do not have the talents of many of our forum friends, but I was amazed of the amount of details I found in my pictures once processed (with C1).

 

Don't stop on details like crop factor or 10Mpix. Crop factor just means different focal distances and after some practice, you will choose these "new" fiocal distances exactly as you chose the former ones. The Canon 450D is 14 Mpix on an even smaller sensor....

 

Now that the R-line has been "murdered" by its genitor, don't hesitate: have a DMR. Like many others, I have also been hoping for an R10 and I bought the lenses while waiting. But now it is the R10 or any other so-called "acceptable" solution that will wait for me...

 

Cheers

Gérard

 

Thx for the reply. I hope to find a R9 with DMR aswell. I think of going analog with the R8 (I own now) and go for a digital version.

 

The viewfinder and low iso are the main issues for me. What a differense 450D with the kit lens .

[PasMichiel]

So is one of you find one for Sale!!! mail me

[jaapv]

Thanks for the inventation. Tomorrow and thursday I will be in Nieuwerkerk a/d IJssel and will go to Breda after work, so maybe one of the days you have time for it.

PM me if and when