jrc Posted June 19, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 19, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you opened this because of prurient interest in insects, that's not what I had in mind. If one were to "put away" an M8 for an indefinite period (perhaps years), carefully took out the battery, etc., and perhaps stored it in a sealed plastic bag with some silica gel, would it nevertheless deteriorate? I understand that some chemicals tend to "eat" themselves, being not quite stable even though they appear to be. Is that true of electronics? JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 19, 2009 Posted June 19, 2009 Hi jrc, Take a look here Mothballing an M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 19, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 19, 2009 Vacuumed shrink-wrap is the accepted procedure in collector circles, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethC Posted June 20, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 20, 2009 I had a 5D thatsat for about a year in a relatively controlled environment not getting used and when I tried to use it whacky things happened, so a new pcb assembly later............ Personally, I'd collect stamps before M8's. Beforevacuum sealing I'd need to find out if all chemicals need oxygen to change their state before deteriorating or not. I'd have to be a lot smarter than I am to start collecting digtial cameras like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 20, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 20, 2009 There are no obvious materials that suffer from deterioration used in the M8. Body: brass, magnesium, chrome steel (? the lugs). Magnesium could erode/oxidize in principle but it seems sufficiently passivated not to worry about that. What else... internal stuff is standard electronics, PCB's, IC's, that should last indefinitely. Danger zones: The internal battery and the Li-ion. No idea what the predicted lifetime is for those, 50 years or so? LCD - should be OK but proven is 40 years, my guess 100+ years. Are there any electrolytic capacitors? That would be of some concern, about 50 years. Main problem is flash memory & firmware. If the operating system gets corrupted it would look technically OK but would be useless. I get the impression that even Leica cannot reflash the operating system as they appear to be replacing the circuitry if the firmware update crashes..... Are there critical components that need to be kept powered up? Maybe Mark knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 20, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 20, 2009 Not sure whiy you'd want to moth ball such a wasting asset. If you're not going to need it for years, it makes sense to sell it now and buy whatever is current later. There is a small rechargeable cell on the main circuit board which will go flat and may not take kindly to never being charged. I think it is replaceable by someone who can solder, one of very few electronic parts in the camera which could be replaced. That's the problem with surface mount, a failing component costing pennies can require a complete board to be replaced. Removing the battery, keep in a bag with silica gel and keep cool is what I would do. As for the battery, half charge it and keep it in the fridge, not freezer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted June 20, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 20, 2009 It does sound a little sad to buy this camera and put it in storage indefinitely. No photos, no joy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 20, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since there are forum members who apparently consider their M8 to be an extension of themselves: immersion in formaldehyde? (That'll save the museum having to do it in 2109.) Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted June 20, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 20, 2009 Rolls of Egyptian cotton, papyrus, ancient egyptian herbs. Seriously sell it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted June 20, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 20, 2009 Just keep it nice and dry.. I just pulled a old Olympus E10 out of the drawer.. no use for about 10 years.. need a new battery, plugged it into a powersource and everything works just fine.. guess my drawer can now be classified as a archival grade ikea drawer. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted June 21, 2009 Share #10 Posted June 21, 2009 Are there any electrolytic capacitors? That would be of some concern, about 50 years. Well, any audiophile would laugh at the idea of capacitors in a piece of electronics still being reliable after a period of more than, say, twelve…! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted June 21, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 21, 2009 Here at the McMansion I have decided to convert the gift wrapping room (No longer needed given the moratorium on bonuses) into my Leica store room... It is perfectly situated just down the hall from the Leica showroom/kitty den... I plan on sealing the whole room with silicone caulk and pumping in Argon gas... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 21, 2009 Share #12 Posted June 21, 2009 Well, any audiophile would laugh at the idea of capacitors in a piece of electronics still being reliable after a period of more than, say, twelve…!Maybe audiophiles need to get educated then. I know for a fact that valve radios from before 1940 still worked fine in 1975. They used large numbers of electrolytic capacitors, at high voltages and large temperature variations. Same applied to old TV sets, they kept going on for at least 20 years and usually got trashed because the CRT quality & size had improved. Philips even introduced parts in their TV sets that failed prematurely to improve turnover (or at least that was the folklore). My present Quad 44, 405-II and old 33, 303 are still running fine on the first set of caps. So 20-30 years is no problem. Having said, I do have a set of new parts lying around ready for a rainy day and some soldering fun and games. Modern electrolytic capacitors should be more durable unless no progress was made during the past 50 years which I find unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted June 21, 2009 I'm not a collector, but I haven't used the M much lately, because I'm having a harder and harder time focusing accurately. (Age is the problem.) My idea was that instead of having it sit around on a shelf, I could do something simple, like pull the battery and then seal it in a Zipoc bag with some silica gel. Then, when the next M comes out, perhaps it'll have focus confirm or some way that I will be able to focus it quickly, and I could use this M as an emergency back-up. The point being that I really don't want to give up the whole M business, just in case a modernized M actually shows up, and I wouldn't get that much for it anyway.. (I wonder if I sent an e-mail to Stefan Daniel, if he would give me a non-ambiguous answer like, 'Well, you can't really plan on any different kind of focus mechanism...' in which case I'd reluctantly sell it off.) I also can't help thinking that even if Leica doesn't come out with a more modern M, that some other company might well do it in the next couple of years. Speaking of all of this, it has actually occurred to me that if R-glass prices crash, it might be worthwhile picking some of it up, gambling that somebody sooner or later will come out with a EVIL that will use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 21, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 21, 2009 If focussing is a real problem then even if you keep it, it will be an unsuitable back up as you will still have the same problem, won't you? A few suggestions - use wider angle lenses only (more dof) at f5.6-11, sell the M8 and buy a G1 (bearing in mind the 2 X crop factor) or buy a Canon 5D and some R glass to use on that with a 'focus confirm' adapter. R lenses are pretty cheap s/h as it is, I doubt they'll 'crash' as there are plenty of Leica R film fans out there, as well as all the others who can use R glass on their digitals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted June 21, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 21, 2009 Have you tried a "correction" lens? They screw onto any M camera's eyepiece. I have a +1.5 on my M7... Couldn't focus without it! Or as Lars once said here, try vari-focal spectacles, you get use to placing your eye in the right place. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 21, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 21, 2009 I am sorry to hear that focussing difficulties are spoiling the fun, in daytime you can just set the aperture to f/5.6 or f/8 and zone focus. There is no need for rangefinder focussing at all and the images can still be spectacular. But I am sure you know that. Anyway, as a random example from this weekend at 3 pm, this was using a tele-elmarit 90 at f/5.6 and substantially cropped afterwards, I did not have the time or the inclination to focus on anything in particular: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 22, 2009 Share #17 Posted June 22, 2009 Maybe audiophiles need to get educated then. I know for a fact that valve radios from before 1940 still worked fine in 1975. They used large numbers of electrolytic capacitors, at high voltages and large temperature variations. Same applied to old TV sets, they kept going on for at least 20 years and usually got trashed because the CRT quality & size had improved. Philips even introduced parts in their TV sets that failed prematurely to improve turnover (or at least that was the folklore). My present Quad 44, 405-II and old 33, 303 are still running fine on the first set of caps. So 20-30 years is no problem. Having said, I do have a set of new parts lying around ready for a rainy day and some soldering fun and games. Modern electrolytic capacitors should be more durable unless no progress was made during the past 50 years which I find unlikely. Stephen, Slightly OT to begin with but gets back on track at the end. I think you might be amazed how much your older Quads would be improved by a capacitor upgrade and maybe op-amps (CPT Acoustics - Colin Twogood, Net Audio - Dave Pritchard or Fidele - Peter Hickman). I am amazed your 33/303 is still going on its original set. When I sold mine a few years ago (bought new in 1968), the second set had just died on the 303. The actual capacitance of electrolytics starts to degrade after just a few years and after say 10 years, may be down to 50% or less. Colin just serviced my Audio Alchemy DAC (1996 vintage) and said some of the caps were down to nearly 40%. Now admittedly, this sits unused for 6 months at a time, which does not improve caps. I think if you were to leave an M8 put away for 10 years, I would not be surprised if the same deterioration were to occur and you might be fortunate for it to say 'hello' when you put a charged battery in. I don't think there will be many M8's working perfectly in 55 years like my IIF or 40 years (apart from some fungus in the VF), like my M4. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted June 22, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 22, 2009 Dear jrc: To address the issue of the internal battery going south, perhaps you should plan on unwrapping it every six months or so, charging the battery, putting the battery in for a day or so, and then repacking. Or give it to someone who will do this for you and treat your camera well and who would return it to you in the same condition on demand (me, me, me). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 22, 2009 Share #19 Posted June 22, 2009 Yes- but if one keeps the camera under vacuum, it should be done in a low-pressure chamber wearing an oxygen mask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 22, 2009 Share #20 Posted June 22, 2009 Wilson, thanks for the info re. the benifits of replacing some components in my audio equipment. I may give it a try as I bought the various parts (caps & IC's) some time ago but never found the time to fire up the soldering iron. In the case of the M8 I would be surprised if the caps (if any) would be used for more than the power supply. I agree that 50 years service life for the M8 without any part replacements is probably too optimistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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