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Official Leica Statements

sean_reid

By sean_reid
in Digital Forum

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robertwright

robertwright

Posted
Posted

like bill van said, the thickness of the glass has little impact on IR, the IR filter works by means of quantum wave effects on the photons to create interference which nullifies the IR. Just like lens multi-coating, the IR filter has multiple micon sized coatings on the filter to create create multiple light interfaces for the IR wavelenght only. Like when you hook your speakers up out of phase and bass cancels out, this is what an IR filter does. It does not block by "absorption" which is somewhat of a misnomer anyway. We all accept multicoated lenses as the norm, this is no different.

Practically speaking, the lenses themselves could be designed with the coatings already applied. It is just that film never had this problem because the spectral sensitivity was designed into the film and not the lens. In the history of film design, the goals have been conversely the design of better spectral sensitivity-ortho to panchromatic for example.

Once you change the capture media, the entire imaging chain is called into question.

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FrankK

FrankK

Posted
Posted
may I suggest you subscribe to the Leica newsletter TODAY (you'll get it TOMORROW)...

 

Leica Camera AG - Subscribe Newsletter

 

Klaus-Dieter,

 

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the subscription service does not seem to be working properly. I tried to subscribe several times, but am still waiting for Leica's confirmation e-mail.

 

Cheers, Frank

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twom4

twom4

Posted
Posted

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Now try ordering that in E60 size for a Nocti. I've been waiting 10 weeks for delivery of a ND filter from B+W in that size with no indication of when I will actually receive it.

 

 

Brent,

 

You didn't call the right dealer. ;)

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rfleica

rfleica

Posted
Posted

leica's reluctance, to put it mildy, for images to be published prior to m8 shipping.....

 

it's unfortunate in some ways that there were not loads of images ahead of shipping, so that the magenta/mirror/green blob/streaking issues could have been caught earlier. anyone care to comment?

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G Radda

G Radda

Posted
Posted

If the IR blocking filters are a possible solution, then why can't Leica add an entry to the SET menu to allow manual selection of the lens rather than having to have it coded and auto-sensed? Yes you could make a mistake, but I would rather take that chanch than have to send all lenses back for coding. If certain non-Leica lenses have a similar IR response to current Leica lenses, the user could choose that equivalent manually and continue to derive the benefits of using the IR blocking filter. Just a thought.

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cjago

cjago

Posted
Posted
Mitch, The answer is yes. There is a nice demo by Regit Young on the Leica forum (photo.net) with and without a B+W UV-IR cut filter on the lens and the R-D1(s).

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00HTKX

 

 

And if you google "b+w 486" you quickly get to Nikon forums where exactly the same problems and fixes are discussed.

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johnll

johnll

Posted
Posted

This thread has become very long, so I'll just make it a tiny bit longer ...

Thanks to Sean for all his efforts. I'd like to suggest one thing he might consider, which would be to add a Part IV (at least) to his excellent review of the M8 in which the various "issues" could be considered, placed in context, and where we could find info on the status of Leica's statements and actual results as regards getting them fixed.

AFAIK, the issues are ...

1 Magenta cast (IR filter issue)

2 White balance unpredictability (related to issue #1?)

3 Banding caused by blown highlights

4 Green ghosts

5 The 8-bit DNG question

I'd love to get this camera, but I won;t be placing an order until most if not all these matters have been fixed.

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Guest stevenrk

Guest stevenrk

Posted
Posted
Steven--

You are correct in the second part of your conclusion: IF Leica had this knowledge ahead of time, the information should have been available; perhaps an addendum to the instruction manual or a footnote in the brochure.

 

But the information Christian offered is presented as 'background' information before the suggestion of filtering is broached. You can see 'background' as acknowledgment of the need of a tradeoff. I see the term as an explanation much like Mark Norton's, viz, 'here are the parameters we are faced with.' This could simply be an after-the-fact recognition, trying to show the issues involved.

 

Thanks for explaining your take on the issue; it is certainly viable. Nonetheless, without more information, I don't think the information we have in the statement is enough to infer that Leica was aware of the problem ahead of time.

 

I'm sure my refusal to see what seems obvious to you is as annoying to you as your refusal to see that there is another possible interpretation is to me.

 

Sincere thanks for your time and effort in explaining your point of view.

 

--HC

 

 

HC, not at all annoying. Both reasonable interpretations from people trying to figure out what's up. As you point out, that would be helped by a clearer statement from Leica, which may be coming shortly. My hope is that you are correct, as is my hope that Leica follows Guy's suggestions and brings us an M8 that does all things the camera already does superbly and provides a real solution to the real problems we are discussing.

 

Best, Steven

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sean_reid

sean_reid

Posted
  • Author
Posted
This thread has become very long, so I'll just make it a tiny bit longer ...

Thanks to Sean for all his efforts. I'd like to suggest one thing he might consider, which would be to add a Part IV (at least) to his excellent review of the M8 in which the various "issues" could be considered, placed in context, and where we could find info on the status of Leica's statements and actual results as regards getting them fixed.

AFAIK, the issues are ...

1 Magenta cast (IR filter issue)

2 White balance unpredictability (related to issue #1?)

3 Banding caused by blown highlights

4 Green ghosts

5 The 8-bit DNG question

I'd love to get this camera, but I won;t be placing an order until most if not all these matters have been fixed.

 

Hi John,

 

Discussions of many of these aspects have been in the reviews since early this week and and an additional conclusion has been added to Part 3. In fact, the statements I requested from Leica were specifically intended as background information for revisions to the reviews. Christian's IR related comments were added this past Tuesday.

 

1. already included (new article will look at effectiveness of B+W 486 filters)

2. will be added when time allows, getting ready for big shoot and need to do my own testing of 486s tomorrow because I plan to use them for the shoot.

3. already included

4. will need to look into this

5. still waiting for information on this aspect which was promised to me by Leica.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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mhoutman

mhoutman

Posted
Posted

A simple comparison:

 

I buy a new car and some electronic parts seem to interfere with the steering system: my garage tells me that it will be solved after I buy some expensive upgrade parts.

 

Now I buy a Leica M8 and I am told to buy additional IR filters for each lens to get the whole thing working.............. as it should be on the first place !!

 

Michiel

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wparsonsgisnet

wparsonsgisnet

Posted
Posted
I'll be using the 24 and 50 lux primarily; how do filters fit with respect to the hoods?

 

Looking at my 24 and 50-'Lux-asph, the filter fits inside the outer ring of the body, so is not hindered by the shade. The same is true of my 35-'Lux-asph and my 50DR. In those cases, filters are behind and inside the hoods, respectively.

 

I have had filters on my 75-'Lux, and they fit inside the sliding hood, as well. As it happens, I do not see a way to attach a filter to my 90-'Cron.

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JHAG

JHAG

Posted
Posted
Klaus-Dieter,

 

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the subscription service does not seem to be working properly. I tried to subscribe several times, but am still waiting for Leica's confirmation e-mail.

 

Cheers, Frank

 

Same for me : subscribed on both my email addresses.

Nothing from Leica.

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wparsonsgisnet

wparsonsgisnet

Posted
Posted
Sean, did you order the B+W 486 or 489 filters? I just ordered a 486.

 

Carsten, Sean answered elsewhere that he bot the 486.

I have ordered a single 486 for my 24mm lens, to see how things go.

 

At $100-plus, I'm not running to do this.

 

I AM going to take delivery on my M8 if it EVER comes. I fully expect Leica to solve this problem and am also neutral on sending it back for a fix, if that turns out to be necessary.

 

I have my beloved, trusty D2 as backup for such occasions.

 

We are all very fortunate to have this Forum -- where Leica itself is allowing numerous persons to bash the camera and the Company!!! -- where we may discuss the various first-generation problems.

 

I am confident that the problem will be fixed. In the meantime, I want my sliver M8 so I can get those other 99% of the pictures that I take.

 

Regards,

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Guest stevenrk

Guest stevenrk

Posted
Posted

 

We are all very fortunate to have this Forum -- where Leica itself is allowing numerous persons to bash the camera and the Company!!! -- where we may discuss the various first-generation problems.

 

Regards,

 

That's a very good point and speaks well of them. Thanks for reminding us where this conversation is happening. Let's hope you are right and that it produces the M8 Leica wanted to deliver and we all were expecting.

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