sdai Posted June 12, 2009 Share #101 Posted June 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica's idea could change too often, I'll only "buy it" when I actually see it, try it ... you can definitely keep your R lenses, Jaap, and I will do so too because there's simply too many ways to use them. The large sensor EVIL camera idea isn't totally new, another S.D. has talked a lot about it and suggested Leica to do so on the S2 forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 12, 2009 Posted June 12, 2009 Hi sdai, Take a look here Hessenpark News: Official - No R10: no FF M9 (yet). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 12, 2009 Share #102 Posted June 12, 2009 Aye aye sir Exactly what I said - Stefan did the translating himself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 12, 2009 Share #103 Posted June 12, 2009 Leica's idea could change too often, I'll only "buy it" when I actually see it, try it ... you can definitely keep your R lenses, Jaap, and I will do so too because there's simply too many ways to use them. I certainly agree. For one thing Dr. Kaufman reached an agreement with the Danes this week that they will no longer hang onto their DMR technology, eneabling Leica to support the DMR better and longer. So I'll be happily be shooting that until this Digilux-R appears. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wok64 Posted June 12, 2009 Share #104 Posted June 12, 2009 It still doesn't make sense to me. Why shall they offer a "good" body to mount R-lenses and then stop producing such lenses? For what kind of lenses will this body then be provided? Maybe a Fullframe Panasonic with an R-Adapter? Wait and see .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 12, 2009 Share #105 Posted June 12, 2009 It makes total sense. If they build a new body (or buy it....) that body will have AF, so they will have to develop a new range of lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share #106 Posted June 12, 2009 Thanks for filling out the story so far, Jaap. Have good weekend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted June 12, 2009 Share #107 Posted June 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I certainly agree. For one thing Dr. Kaufman reached an agreement with the Danes this week that they will no longer hang onto their DMR technology, eneabling Leica to support the DMR better and longer. So I'll be happily be shooting that until this Digilux-R appears. Does that mean Leica could rewrite the DMR firmware by themselves or just bought the code and rights from Hasselblad? The ability to use R lenses on a 35mm full size EVIL camera is pretty cool actually, if implemented properly, live view could actually give the most accurate framing and focusing for the R lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share #108 Posted June 12, 2009 Live View isn't EVIL though is it? I have never looked through an EVIL finder and thought "Oh, that's good" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 12, 2009 Share #109 Posted June 12, 2009 So, it's not from Leica, is full frame, Makes me think of an alliance with a manufacturer who does have a FF DSLR. If so it won't be Cano because they don' do that kind of thing. It won't be Nikon because they can sell as many as they make. It won't be Sony because of the relationship with Zeiss. So my guess it's with Pentax who currently make a well regarded full frame camera that allows the use of older lenses with mechanical diaphragm control. I'm guessing they like to gain market share against Nikon and Canon. All it needs - maybe wishful thinking - is a tweak to the manual diaphram mechanism in the camera. If I had money to spare I'd bet on Pentax. I assume Leica have felt that SLR sales won't be big enough to support the development of an R10 - a surprise I admit, maybe related to the state of the global economy. The end of upgrades to the M8 doesn't surprise me. Anything else would have meant the M9 being limited to the bodyshell of the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 12, 2009 Share #110 Posted June 12, 2009 Just read about the EVF viewfinder. That makes my Pentax theory something of a no no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 12, 2009 Share #111 Posted June 12, 2009 HI Steve Especially as Pentax don't actually make a full frame camera (whether well regarded or not). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted June 12, 2009 Share #112 Posted June 12, 2009 Clearly the turmoil in management is reflected in Leica's strategy and ever changing position as to what it will offer. Upgraded M8's forever, oh that was yesterday, new M9 maybe in a couple of years more, R10 right around the corner...I mean trash can. and so it goes. The bottom line is that they have bet their entire future on the S2 and will have nothing new to offer for another year at the soonest and that will be a third party camera with a Leica badge on it, if they last long enough and can sell enough S2's. Is an unproven $30K system a 10,000 unit market? I seriously doubt it but time will tell. More importantly what is the sales curve? If it starts very slowly taking a long period to reach even 1,000 units then they may not survive long enough to see a 10K unit market. They have been bleeding for a year and the question is how long can the patient stay alive without a healthy transfusion? It looks to me like they have effectively abandoned the M and R markets for the foreseeable future since we all know that what they say today and mean tomorrow will likely be very different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 12, 2009 Share #113 Posted June 12, 2009 I'll go to bed shall I? <grin> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted June 13, 2009 Share #114 Posted June 13, 2009 Live View isn't EVIL though is it? I have never looked through an EVIL finder and thought "Oh, that's good" You're right, EVIL only stands for electronic viewfinder interchangeable lenses ... but since live view has been widely adopted also by conventional DSLRs, I think it'll be an natural addition to this category, actually if there's a properly implemented live view I probably won't bother with EVF at all - whether it's good or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posto 6 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #115 Posted June 13, 2009 Clearly the turmoil in management is reflected in Leica's strategy and ever changing position as to what it will offer. Upgraded M8's forever, oh that was yesterday, new M9 maybe in a couple of years more, R10 right around the corner...I mean trash can. and so it goes. Sad to say it, but I feel that Leica are missing the boat, much as they did in the SLR days by floggng the Leicaflex when they could have produced the SL with a little extra effort. Being slow off the mark, they will see a surprising amount of would-be Leica digital users placing their cash elsewhere. The M8, frankly, is in many ways a highly disappointing bit of eye candy- the lack of full-frame making Leica glass highly uncompetitive price-wise, and the camera itself not really meriting it's premium price tag. It is in need of urgent development and refinement, as it is not really fit for purpose in it's current incarnation. If this contraption is supposed to lead sales over the coming two years, I wish them the best of luck- and plenty of creativity on the celebratory model front! I will keep my fantastic Leica film-cameras, as well as (for now) my M and R-lenses, but will seriously question the validity of adding to them as the whole product range starts to look terminal. Hopefully someone may eventually find a solution making digital backs for the film cameras, and, of course, there should always be ways of using Leica glass on other machines. However, there are unfortunately always in nature examples of wonderful creatures that are unable to survive and adapt, and, whillst I thank Dr. Kaufmann for his efforts and financial contributions, I suspect that we are rapidly approaching the end of the line as far as Leica satisfying the requirements of their traditional customer base is concerned If I am to buy Panasonic, Pentax or similar cameras, I will do so directly, bypassing the need for royalties which only add a decorative veneer to easily-available mainstream products. Perhaps Leica should examine the possibility of emulating Angenieux? Doing more work for the military, as in the days of Leitz? Unfortunately, there are indications of being tired and asleep at the wheel at present, not a healthy state of affairs. A very, very sad situation, and unfortunately, one without a discernible exit strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted June 13, 2009 Share #116 Posted June 13, 2009 Thanks for the news Andy. Maybe the economy? Maybe some new technology? Maybe Leica Cinema? Obviously it had to be something ground-shaking or ground-breaking to make them 'cancel out' all the statements they put forth about it up to now. Some kind of new direction. At this moment I am not really interested in a 'hybrid camera body' from another company to put my R glass on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10dreamer Posted June 13, 2009 Share #117 Posted June 13, 2009 Dude, the M is the only reason I shoot Leica. I have a lot of friends in the company and wish them much success with the upcoming S line and whatever they do with the R but they are not for me. For my style, the M is the only camera, actually I only own and shoot Ms. Cheers, Well great Riccis. You keep using a $5,000.00 camera to do what almost any $600 camera produced today can do. Makes sense to me..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccis Posted June 13, 2009 Share #118 Posted June 13, 2009 Well great Riccis. You keep using a $5,000.00 camera to do what almost any $600 camera produced today can do. Makes sense to me..... I actually stopped using digital and went back to film over a year ago. I'm actually shooting a lot with M3s and a 21, 50 and 90... Oh, and the $600 digital camera with a fast lens is way bulkier than my little Ms Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 13, 2009 Share #119 Posted June 13, 2009 In a later conversation I had with Stefan later he outlined Leica's plans with full commitment: Leica will have a FF EVF camera, fully compatible with R lensand of Leica quality. On the the EVF he said that Leica regards the G1 EVF as the very lowest acceptable quality and is aiming to offer something substantially better.es And just look at all the grief thrown at me in the recent past for emphatically suggesting this was the way for Leica to go. A camera such as this could be small, pretty quiet, and also work with M lenses. (At least the ones that won't vignette too badly.) It makes good sense. I hope they do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 13, 2009 Share #120 Posted June 13, 2009 A lot of denial here. Leica R = Miranda = Topcon = Ricoh = Contarex. Finis. FF Leica M = "not soon". In Leicaspeak "soon" = 2 years, therefore "not soon" = >2 years = PK 2012 at the earliest. "not interested in 4/3rds" is hardly equivocal. I will bet Rudolf Spiller came in, took one look at the books, and froze anything that would require hardware expenses except getting the basic S2 out the door and completing the move to LeicaPark. No further development of the M system or "secondary" parts of the S system - for the duration of the economic crisis - except for things that can be done with no more immediate cost than a pencil sketch. Serious cuts in parts/production expenses (including the COO in charge). Perhaps some delays in orders from Kodak or Panasonic (although in the past the PanaLeicas have usually been a good cash source). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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