Guest BigSplash Posted June 15, 2009 Share #221 Posted June 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well thank you for clarifying. EVIL - Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lenses - the platform which has been mentioned to Jaap this weekend for the 'R solution'. I noted that too but EVIL as I now understand it is a technology it is: > Not a camera ...but could be used in one!? > Not an accessory that fits where the mirror box would normally be ...but maybe could be? My imression with Stefan call is that it will help "R" owners but the real motive is to widen Leica ability to serve from Macro through to Telephoto......I guess that could be apllied in various ways to the M digital or I guess they could be inventing a new camera, but if it is that why did they not just call it a R10? Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 Hi Guest BigSplash, Take a look here Challenges for new Leica CEO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest BigSplash Posted June 15, 2009 Share #222 Posted June 15, 2009 My dealer thinks that what they maybe looking at is the new Minox spotting sope item fitted with "R" lenses....this unit has a built in camera (still and video) and uses something along the line of EVIL technology! This would be almost a new camera however and does not do macro? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 15, 2009 Share #223 Posted June 15, 2009 In essence EVIL is using the sensor to create a live view of the lens image which is then sent to an electronic viewfinder (basically a small LCD + viewfinder lens). So you see an electronic rendition of what the sensor is capturing. The alternative "live view" is basically the same but using the LCD on the back of the camera to image the info, just as with most current point-and-shoot camera's. This is not an R camera by definition as R is for mirror-Reflex. The key issue & objection to this solution is that the electronic rendition by an LCD of the image causes substantial deteriation of the live image compared to an all optical solution using a mirror & pentaprism. Also with a M-type camera you want to have an image outside the frame of the sensor which is not compatible with EVIL or live view. The big advantage is that EVIL/live view would be suitable for both M and R lenses, and anything else that you can get to fit via an adaptor ring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 15, 2009 Share #224 Posted June 15, 2009 > You should by implication stay with analogue (film), and the M8 is so bad I would never buy one (Bill) Frank, if you are going to quote me, have the courtesy to do so accurately: The M8 is a fine camera, but I neither have one, nor do I regard it as the answer to a maiden's prayer. You are new here, so you won't know, but I am one of many who right from the start regarded the M8 as too flawed, too compromised, to be worth owning and have said so, clearly and without rancour. I wait with patient interest for a full-frame M, and have watched many fine photographers return to film in the meantime. By the way, who said anything about staying with film? I pointed out that many are returning as they recognise that digital - any digital - is not the only answer. Horses for courses. Don't take my word for it: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/89101-back-film.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/88268-my-return-film.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/87781-who-said-film-dying.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/86131-surprised-film-after-years-digital.html ..of course I appeciate that you won't acknowledge any of the above, since it does not fit your world view and I have noticed your consistent avoidance on this thread and on others of any fact that does not fit. Kudos to Stefan Daniel - it must be a slow day in Solms. Separating the "factual" wheat from the "interpreted" chaff, however, there is nothing new here. It seems that Leica in general, and Herr Daniel in particular are being considered and consistent in their messaging. Perhaps now that Frank's Visoflex boil has been lanced, we can look forward to an end to the monologue... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 15, 2009 Share #225 Posted June 15, 2009 My dealer thinks that what they maybe looking at is the new Minox spotting sope item fitted with "R" lenses....this unit has a built in camera (still and video) and uses something along the line of EVIL technology! This would be almost a new camera however and does not do macro? This? http://www.adorama.com/MXD5EPZS.htmlhttp://www.adorama.com/MXD5EPZS.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 15, 2009 Share #226 Posted June 15, 2009 Of course, $449. I do wonder what they're on down there in Grasse. I can only assume they're drinking the perfume instead of spraying it about their person... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 15, 2009 Share #227 Posted June 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) This? http://www.adorama.com/MXD5EPZS.html ROFL! If so, I suspect your dealer is having some fun at your expense, Frank... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 15, 2009 Share #228 Posted June 15, 2009 Frank, if you are going to quote me, have the courtesy to do so accurately: By the way, who said anything about staying with film? I pointed out that many are returning as they recognise that digital - any digital - is not the only answer. Horses for courses. Don't take my word for it: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/89101-back-film.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/88268-my-return-film.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/87781-who-said-film-dying.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/86131-surprised-film-after-years-digital.html ..of course I appeciate that you won't acknowledge any of the above, since it does not fit your world view and I have noticed your consistent avoidance on this thread and on others of any fact that does not fit. Kudos to Stefan Daniel - it must be a slow day in Solms. Separating the "factual" wheat from the "interpreted" chaff, however, there is nothing new here. It seems that Leica in general, and Herr Daniel in particular are being considered and consistent in their messaging. Perhaps now that Frank's Visoflex boil has been lanced, we can look forward to an end to the monologue... Regards, Bill Bill I said that you said M8 was bad.......You actually said: Quote: "but I am one of many who right from the start regarded the M8 as too flawed, too compromised, to be worth owning and have said so, clearly and without rancour." Unquote ... Bill now you accuse me of misquoting you!!?? You then go on about film having a place still today in photography....I have never disagreed with that. I even FYI thought about buying some 65% discounted SHPhoto "R" kit. I actually like film also but....... The thread I started was focussing what Leica should do to be financially viable and grow etc, not a debate about film v digital. I just believe that no serious camera company can exist today if it is not digital in all it does. I also from a practical viewpoint in S.France do not see colour film or clour slides as an easy option (B&W yes as I can do it myself) . It's difficult to source the film stock, pro films (kept in a fridge) is difficult to find at all, its expensive to process and takes for ever unless you go to one of the ever decreasing processing guys at a supermarket. JCP (Tokyo) said he uses a scanner once he has his film or slides developed ..so not sure what the point is compared to a 11M pixel M8 with white balance etc. in the camera. Bill why the continual attacks, and accusations. ? I am accused of misquotings I am accused of not liking film I am accused of pushing a Viso...when actually I never wanted the 40 year old device all I wanted was a way of doing the function albeit with new technology as a way of protecting Leica company viability.....The fact that you never cared about this and are happy with your kit like I am is not lost on me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 15, 2009 Share #229 Posted June 15, 2009 This is another thread that has degenerated into a slanging match. Is this one going to have to be closed too? I hope not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 15, 2009 Share #230 Posted June 15, 2009 Andy, you are absolutely right. Frank, you mistake my complete failure to understand why you think you are qualified to guide Leica Camera AG, coupled with your defiance of logic with a personal distaste. It is nothing of the sort. You have accused me more than once of having a closed mind - on the contrary I recognise that Leica is a broad church; that is why I use Barnack, M and R, and digital, and enjoy every moment of doing so. If you get your jollies using an M8, good for you. However. I do not prostheylatise nor do I go around believing that I have all the answers and that anyone who disagrees with me just hasn't thought it through yet. To paraphrase Voltaire, you may disagree with me, but I defend your right to do so. I in return expect you to extend the same courtesy to me and further accept that you absolutely do not have the right to represent anyone other than yourself in expressing your personal opinions. End of explanation. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted June 15, 2009 Share #231 Posted June 15, 2009 This is another thread that has degenerated into a slanging match. Is this one going to have to be closed too? I hope not. Go on Frank' but a little more delicately. Success could be within your grasp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 15, 2009 Share #232 Posted June 15, 2009 Success could be within your grasp But tantalisingly out of reach,,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted June 15, 2009 Share #233 Posted June 15, 2009 But tantalisingly out of reach,,, Quite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 15, 2009 Share #234 Posted June 15, 2009 Go on Frank' but a little more delicately. Success could be within your grasp Kenneth thanks for your kind words and your objectivity. However I actually believe that this thread has indeed run its course "Challenges for a new Leica CEO" Since it was started I believe we have achieved some level of clarity (for me at least!) on key issues that I now understand much better: > R10 is dead and buried....only a week ago this was the "holy grail" > My idea for a new gen Viso is dead and buried but appears to have been resurrected by Solms as some EVIL type technology in ways noone understands yet. Is it a new M back display? Is it a new camera of some tyoe for existing "R lenses" and maybe new lenses that satisfy the need for macro and telephoto that compliments the "sweet spot of "M" series. > M system is the flag carrier at Solms (I think!?) and they recognise the need to cover the spectrum from wide angle to Telephoto. > Some members actually plan to keep going with analogue (film) and I for one very much respect this decision at a personal level. I probably would do the same. if I could access film materials and get these processed at a reasonable price, quickly > Several menbers are anti M8 and M8.2 and would not consider the M digital offer until a full frame is available.....I guess these same people will have issues about M9 full frame noise etc performance when it comes and again that is good . > Available Light photography (Noctilux) seems to be not at the level required for reasons I do not understand. Personally I think that this is the time to CLOSE this thread.....Andy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenneth Posted June 15, 2009 Share #235 Posted June 15, 2009 Frank- Forgive me it was meant to be a wind up but here I am doing exactly what I object to others doing on this forum. I am truly sorry and retract my glib clever arsed comment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 15, 2009 Share #236 Posted June 15, 2009 Kenneth Et tu Brute? Let's all keep this place a good place to visit. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted June 15, 2009 Share #237 Posted June 15, 2009 ...236+ "me, me, me" posts and not a wretched image of note. Is anyone still unclear as to why Leica continues to falter? This one's rhetorical, so please do not respond. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 15, 2009 Share #238 Posted June 15, 2009 Images go in the Photo section. That's why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted June 15, 2009 Share #239 Posted June 15, 2009 Images go in the Photo section. That's why. ...true, Señor Barton, but I was thinking "time" not "space". Then again, maybe our illuminati have a different take on time. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhotoWebb.co.uk Posted June 15, 2009 Share #240 Posted June 15, 2009 Why don't those who shoot with R lenses get a Canon dSLR to shoot digital with them? I am considering a used 5D for just this reason. I have seen some excellent results from this combination and see no reason why people wouldn't be happy with it. I know that some lenses can't be used though. Was it ever likely that Leica would have been able to come out with a dSLR which rivalled the likes of the Canon 5D or 5D Mark 2 anyway? I would have loved to have seen it but I have my doubts.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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