zlatkob Posted May 14, 2009 Share #21 Posted May 14, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that people photograph the way they see. Sameness (or difference) does not come from the technology. Not very much, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Hi zlatkob, Take a look here M8 and the "Wild Beasts of Botswana". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest malland Posted May 14, 2009 Share #22 Posted May 14, 2009 Bill, your Morgan analogy is most inapt, as that wretched car, still made with a wooden chassis, makes no pretense or claim to any newer technology; but with the M8 we're dealing with a digital camera, inherently a somewhat high-tech instrument. There is no reason — and actually very good reasons for future incarnations of this camera not to have features such as matrix metering or a shake dust removal system, neither og which you would need to use — not to speak of a better designed power switch. With references to Hondas, Citizen watches, Canon's your interest seems to be consumerist, which is what is boring. I don't really care if I use a the same camera as everyone else; what I care about is how well it handles and whether it facilitates making good or better pictures. The M8 is a gem of a camera; but it is a flawed gem in some obvious respects and there's no reason that those aspects should not be improved in the future. —Mitch/Bangkok Wild Beasts of Botswana Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 14, 2009 Share #23 Posted May 14, 2009 Bill, your Morgan analogy is most inapt, as that wretched car, still made with a wooden chassis, makes no pretense or claim to any newer technology... Doesn't it have a modern engine, transmission, brakes, electronics, suspension etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted May 14, 2009 Share #24 Posted May 14, 2009 After recently spending a fortnight in Botswana I have now completed a set of pictures of the Wild Beast of Botswana. Of the 110 photographs in this series 95 were taken with the D300 and the wonderful 70-200/f2.8-VR lens and the remaining 15 (mainly landscapes) were taken with the Leica M8. The idea behind the Wild Beast of Botswana series is to depict the harshness and the stress, on both predators and prey, of the environment in which these animals live, including human encroachment, poaching and hunting in some areas, prolonged seasonal drought, and interaction with cattle and ranchers. For this purpose I prefer expressive B&W prints to color prints and am concerned primarily with the how best to express the essence of the animal and the feeling of place rather than "accuracy" of a color photograph or the "exactness" of the tones of a B&W one. You can see a flickr slide show of this series, all processed using Aperture and Silver Efex, by clicking here. I have had my M8.2 for about four months now and the experience of two weeks in Botswana highlighted some of the points I raised when I started a thread here after using the camera for two weeks. Although I like the M8 and am not really comparing it to the D300, which I use for a different purposes, some consideration of the differences is nevertheless useful. Off-on switch As many others have mentioned here this switch is not designed well: often when I took the M8 out of my camera bag I found that the switch had been turned on, something that never happened with the better-designed D300 switch. Dust on sensor In Botswana one is often driving on dusty tracks or off-road. In this environment I was surprised by how well this "sensor shake" method of the D300 performed because it shook the dust loose from the sensor each time and I never had to use the Arctic Butterfly that I brought along. I must say that it would be nice if the M8 had this sensor shake cleaning facility. Metering system I realize that one cannot really compare the D300 state of the art matrix metering system to the rather primitive meter in the M8. But I have to say that on the D300 using the matrix metering system or the 75/25 center-weighted metering system when there was strong backlight I would have as little as 1 out of 200 missed exposures. In fact, as I was photographing most of the time with the D300 and only occasionally switching to the M8, I found metering on the latter was somewhat of an annoyance as, each time, I had to, obviously, point the M8 somewhat down from the sky and hold the exposure while bringing the camera back up to frame the shot. In a situation in which one is somewhat rushed in doing this, and in comparison of the overwhelming convenience of Nikon matrix metering, one is left wishing that the M8, in future versions, would also have a modern, effective matrix metering system. Since being back in Bangkok I haven't yet had a chance to do any street photography, which in the bright light here leads to widely different exposure conditions depending on which part of the street one points the camera, for which Auto-ISO can be useful and for which a modern matrix metering system would also be extremely helpful. Lens identification We had an extensive discussion here on this matter when I posted an online petition to Leica asking them to institute in the M8 firmware lens identification along the lines of what Nikon has on its high-end cameras, involving, in the case of Nikon, entering for each non-AF lens the focal length and maximum aperture into one of nine banks, numbered 1-9, which can then be selected when the relevant lens is put on the camera. There was much objection here to this proposal, which had been discussed previously as well, with many people arguing that they did not want to "go into menus when changing a lens." But that objection only would be valid or users who have all their lenses coded and have UV/IR filters for all of them, which I doubt is the case of most users. I would think that most users would be in a situation similar to mine in Botswana and might not have all their lenses coded or might not have all the relevant UV/IR filters: in Botswana I had three coded lenses but had a UV/IR filter for only one of them, not having been able to locate the correct-sized filters for the other two. In this situation, I had to remember each time I changed a lens to go into the lens identification menu and set lens identification to either "UV/IR" or to "ON." Needless to say, I forgot to do this at least half the time, as I was, in addition, switching between the M8 and the D300. If the M8 had the facility for software with user-eneterd lens identification I would have been able to do this correctly most of the time, as I would know that each time I changed a lens I would have to select it in the menu. That is not to speak of the huge inconvenience, and impossibility for users in countries such as Thailand to get their lenses coded because of the time involved and the difficulties if dealing with Customs when the camera is returned, but this we have already discussed. —Mitch/Bangkok Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream Hi Mitch, Good to see you posting after your trip and thanks for the link to the pictures. Re: your points and my own (sample size of one) feelings - 1) Lens selection menu - What can I say here that I haven't already argued for years now? 2) Shaking sensor for dust removal - This would be great on the M digital if it were possible. I agree that it is handy. 3) On/Off switch - I've never had a problem with this. Might be due to different bags, different handling, etc. I know some had complained about this with the original M8. 4) Metering - I'm quite happy with it as is. Hope you had a great trip. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 14, 2009 Share #25 Posted May 14, 2009 Doesn't it have a modern engine, transmission, brakes, electronics, suspension etc? Exactly... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted May 14, 2009 Share #26 Posted May 14, 2009 Doesn't it have a modern engine, transmission, brakes, electronics, suspension etc? Many small, powerful hamsters churning wooden wheels help make it run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted May 14, 2009 Share #27 Posted May 14, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Many small, powerful hamsters churning wooden wheels help make it run. Really hamsters? From the evolutionary point of view I thought they came ages later. I thought of little raptor babies when H.F.S. invented his first sportscar But see what they make today: Aero SuperSports What a nice looking beast! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 14, 2009 Share #28 Posted May 14, 2009 But see what they make today: Aero SuperSports What a nice looking beast! ....glad someone is up to date and paying attention. Thank you Ron. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 14, 2009 Share #29 Posted May 14, 2009 Really hamsters? I believe Leicas used to be powered by lemmings, but they switched to hamsters after several M6 users were found at the bottom of Scandinavian cliffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 14, 2009 Share #30 Posted May 14, 2009 Bill, your Morgan analogy is most inapt, as that wretched car, still made with a wooden chassis, makes no pretense or claim to any newer technology; but with the M8 we're dealing with a digital camera, inherently a somewhat high-tech instrument. There is no reason — and actually very good reasons for future incarnations of this camera not to have features such as matrix metering or a shake dust removal system, neither og which you would need to use — not to speak of a better designed power switch. With references to Hondas, Citizen watches, Canon's your interest seems to be consumerist, which is what is boring. I don't really care if I use a the same camera as everyone else; what I care about is how well it handles and whether it facilitates making good or better pictures. The M8 is a gem of a camera; but it is a flawed gem in some obvious respects and there's no reason that those aspects should not be improved in the future. —Mitch/Bangkok Wild Beasts of Botswana Sorry, Mitch, I've driven a Morgan for ages, but they never had a wooden chassis. It is a steel ladder chassis with a coachwork on an ash frame with aluminium formed over it. Very 1930-ies, admittedly, but the most fun car to drive available on the market today. As for your photography, it was a compliment. Black and white wildlife photography is about the most difficult thing to get right, but it was all in vogue before 1965. You managed it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 15, 2009 Share #31 Posted May 15, 2009 Sorry, Mitch, I've driven a Morgan for ages, but they never had a wooden chassis. It is a steel ladder chassis with a coachwork on an ash frame with aluminium formed over it. Very 1930-ies, admittedly, but the most fun car to drive available on the market today. As for your photography, it was a compliment. Black and white wildlife photography is about the most difficult thing to get right, but it was all in vogue before 1965. You managed it though. Jaap, I have to confess that I wasn't really that interested to comparisons to the Morgan. But, more importantly, on your statement on the picture series: yes, I did take it as a compliment, and a big one at that, which I appreciate, particularly since you've been to Botswana and know the conditions under which they were shot; but I had only been wondering why you found the style to be 1950-ish. Interestingly, the series has received a lot of interest: there have been almost 1,300 views in the 14 hours since I posted the set, which is enormous for a flickr slide slow (as opposed to an individual photograph), in the light how inconvenient viewing these slide shows can be. —Mitch/Bangkok Chiang Mai Pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuth Posted May 15, 2009 Share #32 Posted May 15, 2009 Yuth, do you send them by courier or ordinary airmail, and how does JM send it back? —Mitch/Bangkok Wiang Pa Pao Pictures Thai Post EMS airmail in a small padded envelop, and I think he sent it back via UPS. I labelled each flange and put in separate small plastic bags which helped when I got them back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted May 15, 2009 Share #33 Posted May 15, 2009 I believe Leicas used to be powered by lemmings, but they switched to hamsters after several M6 users were found at the bottom of Scandinavian cliffs. Now that's funny! :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 15, 2009 Share #34 Posted May 15, 2009 Interestingly, the series has received a lot of interest: there have been almost 1,300 views in the 14 hours since I posted the set, which is enormous for a flickr slide slow (as opposed to an individual photograph), in the light how inconvenient viewing these slide shows can be... Mitch, there were some excellent shots in that series and personally I much preferred them to the photographs from Paris, but I feel they would have benefited from a tighter edit. I started watching the slide show, but I confess I gave up about half to two thirds of the way through, there just wasn't the variety of image to keep me interested. That probably says as much about me as the photographs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 15, 2009 Share #35 Posted May 15, 2009 Mitch, there were some excellent shots in that series and personally I much preferred them to the photographs from Paris, but I feel they would have benefited from a tighter edit. I started watching the slide show, but I confess I gave up about half to two thirds of the way through, there just wasn't the variety of image to keep me interested. That probably says as much about me as the photographs. Quite. I've given up on Flickr slideshows, btw, and now use Cooliris. I too gave up on a linear show after a while and chose instead to pick and choose the images that stood out from all the rest. Editing is as much an art as image capture, methinks, and one that many of us - me included - have still to master. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 15, 2009 Share #36 Posted May 15, 2009 I would think that most users would be in a situation similar to mine in Botswana and might not have all their lenses coded or might not have all the relevant UV/IR filters: in Botswana I had three coded lenses but had a UV/IR filter for only one of them, not having been able to locate the correct-sized filters for the other two. In this situation, I had to remember each time I changed a lens to go into the lens identification menu and set lens identification to either "UV/IR" or to "ON." Needless to say, I forgot to do this at least half the time, as I was, in addition, switching between the M8 and the D300. Mitch, I am a bit surprised at this. You may have missed that www.foto-huppert.de will supply nearly all sizes by return post and even very special ones will only take a couple of weeks to be made to order. For instance, the Leica series VII is not available and may be on a waiting list for the coming half year, but I got a B&W one within 24 hours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 15, 2009 Share #37 Posted May 15, 2009 Jaap, I had located the two filters that I needed at a German on-line store and then waited to order so that the delivery would fall in the ten-day period that I spent in Paris before going to Botswana; but by the time I was ready to order these filters were out of stock and I couldn't locate them anywhere else. However, as I was aiming for B&W this was not really an issue for Botswana. —Mitch/Bangkok Wild Beasts of Botswana - a set on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 15, 2009 Share #38 Posted May 15, 2009 Next time you need such a window just shoot me a PM, easier to coordinate if one is in Europe... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 15, 2009 Share #39 Posted May 15, 2009 Steve and Bill, flickr slide shows are certainly not the best form of presentation but do give wide exposure. Editing is more the difficult the closer one is to the work. While the series represents the first edit, the slide show format is not the final form of presentation, and I woulod expect to do some more edits in the future, when I've taken more distance from this. Steve, I was not happy either with the shots I made in Paris in early April, but while they were uninspired they served to give me further practice with the M8. The shots I post on flickr are just a simple "stream", sometimes just to help me to work out issues and to gain some reactions; and it is only when I collect the, into sets, such as the Botswana series, that they start coalescing as something that may have more significance. —Mitch/Bangkok Wild Beasts of Botswana - a set on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 15, 2009 Share #40 Posted May 15, 2009 Mitch, you should definitely try Cooliris - it has helped me edit no end. I now use Flickr as a first-cut/dump then use Cooliris to help edit down to a "best of". The ability to flick around quickly will help you to weed out the weaker and more repetitive images. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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