marqos Posted February 20, 2009 Share #1 Posted February 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm wondering what people are hoping for in a replacement for the Digilux 3? For me I would like to see a reduction in body and lens size, larger sensor, exceptional low light performance, and an array of prime lenses. I feel there would be a large demand for a camera system which was compact, rugged, competitively priced. My experience with the Digilux 3 has been great! But the size can be improved. My major disappointment with it is that I purchased it feeling that Leica was going to make a large selection of lenses for it. Specifically, I really enjoy using wide angle summicron lenses, so was really expecting them to make a 28 and 35mm equivalent. I am excited to see what they will be coming out with next. Would love to see one that has a full frame sensor, uses r lenses or its own compact line, and is sized along the Digilux 2. Perhaps there is room for an R10 and a baby brother, much like Canon has created in the 1Ds Mark III and the 5D Mark II. I would love to have an R10, but am concerned the price point may be out of my reach at the moment. I miss the days of film when image quality was more based on lens and film used vs sensor lens combination... Leica has made some smart decisions lately. I hope they are putting some attention into the gap between the D Lux 4 and the M8.2-R10 price range. Are their any others out there craving a compact system camera with exceptional image quality, prime lenses, and a more affordable price? Perhaps something similar in size to the Contax G2 System? What would you like to see? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 20, 2009 Posted February 20, 2009 Hi marqos, Take a look here What would you like to see replace the Digilux 3?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
John Thawley Posted February 20, 2009 Share #2 Posted February 20, 2009 The Digilux 2 - but with larger sensor, bigger buffer and improved viewfinder. Which is what the Digilux 3 SHOULD have been. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted February 20, 2009 Share #3 Posted February 20, 2009 Agree John. But I'm not sure Leica has realized just how great a working camera the Digilux 2 is. Documentary - and shooting in general - has changed from Leica M6 film version. You simply shoot more frames with digital than with film. And the Digilux 2 can do that quite easily, soundless and without having to change "film" all the time. That together with the zoom and AF simply make it a more productive camera than say the M8 or R9/DMR. I don't think Leica recognized that with the Digilux 2, the M arrived in the 21st century. It very much is what the M should be in our time. Some said somewhere in this forum, few days ago, that Leica must rethink the M and get out of the historic loop. They don't have to think that hard, they just need to look at the Digilux 2 and upgrade it. Hell, make a 10 MP Digilux 2.2 and make it in a couple of other versions as well (like Hasselblad) with 25MP and 40MP. Same shell, different sensors (might do that on the M8.2 as well). Some bloke will post a long thread about how that's not possible because of the sensor size and the sensor doesn't even exist anymore. I don't care. Give me the camera, not the reasons why it can't! Actually the thing that most concern me about the D2 is not the megapixels but the speed of buffer and AF. That slowness is the worst. The file size you can increase to most usage anyways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted February 20, 2009 Share #4 Posted February 20, 2009 The real problem is theDigilux is Panasonic and not really a Leica product. Just let Leica get the money from Licensing the Red Dot and get on with designing the R10 and next generation M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASO Posted February 21, 2009 Share #5 Posted February 21, 2009 Agree with Thorsten and John!! We all got the D2´s for a fantastic zoom lens/ sensor combination with ultra usability in an icon classic design. And by the way "Up and running" for an unbeatable price/quality ratio. A must have and keep forever product. The technology for what could be added (viewfinder AF etc.) is ready and available to jet a D2 to new horizons and capabilities. Surely a piece of cake for the boys in Solms if they wanted to or got the chance. So you german engineering geeks just make a D2 x² for roughly €1.999,99 chuck in a free strap and you´ll be rid of those bleed dry investment companies. Wish a small percentage of the world wide rescue package would go directly to preserve highest quality research, specialist engineering and design with the aim of products like the D2 x²!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rontr6 Posted February 21, 2009 Share #6 Posted February 21, 2009 I also agree with John and Thorsten, what a missed opertunity for Leica an upgrade of the D2 was. If they could also have reduced it's size to nearer an M camera it would be even better, but maybe that's being greedy:o Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joppepop Posted February 21, 2009 Share #7 Posted February 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I hope there will be a succesor of the D3 that is somewhat lighter but that's not high in priority. Personally I liked the viewfinder of the D2 since I could use the view magnifier, which helped me a lot when focusing manually. I have great problems seing where the focus is with the D3, the view is too small and dim. Maybe that's because I wear glasses. Anyway, since of this I'll await to see what Leica, Panasonic and Olympus comes up with in the next year or so. The G1 is not that interesting to me, but there might be new ones around the corner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLV Posted February 21, 2009 Share #8 Posted February 21, 2009 Agree John. But I'm not sure Leica has realized just how great a working camera the Digilux 2 is. Documentary - and shooting in general - has changed from Leica M6 film version. You simply shoot more frames with digital than with film. And the Digilux 2 can do that quite easily, soundless and without having to change "film" all the time. That together with the zoom and AF simply make it a more productive camera than say the M8 or R9/DMR. I don't think Leica recognized that with the Digilux 2, the M arrived in the 21st century. It very much is what the M should be in our time. Some said somewhere in this forum, few days ago, that Leica must rethink the M and get out of the historic loop. They don't have to think that hard, they just need to look at the Digilux 2 and upgrade it. Hell, make a 10 MP Digilux 2.2 and make it in a couple of other versions as well (like Hasselblad) with 25MP and 40MP. Same shell, different sensors (might do that on the M8.2 as well). Some bloke will post a long thread about how that's not possible because of the sensor size and the sensor doesn't even exist anymore. I don't care. Give me the camera, not the reasons why it can't! Actually the thing that most concern me about the D2 is not the megapixels but the speed of buffer and AF. That slowness is the worst. The file size you can increase to most usage anyways. I agree 110%. Same Lens, a good buffer and a new sensor increased size. a speedy AF and it is better than even. (because the D2 is already even) Why not? Cheers from Jean-Luc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesh Posted February 21, 2009 Share #9 Posted February 21, 2009 We've made these pleas before - but I don't think they're listening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
audidudi Posted February 21, 2009 Share #10 Posted February 21, 2009 Same Lens, a good buffer and a new sensor increased size. a speedy AF and it is better than even. FYI, a larger sensor will also require that the new, improved D2 use a different lens, because the image circle will need to be proportionally larger to cover a larger sensor. Part of the reason the D2 gets away with using as compact of a lens as it does is due to the small size of the sensor that it has to cover. Change this and you'll need to change the lens as well. On the other hand, there's nothing to prevent Panasonic/Leica from replacing the existing sensor with a same-size one with improved performance (many of the new class of video cameras use a similar size sensor, so adapting one to still camera use shouldn't be too difficult), in which case the original D2 lens could be reused, assuming it has sufficient reserves of resolution to take advantage of an improved sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joppepop Posted February 21, 2009 Share #11 Posted February 21, 2009 We've made these pleas before - but I don't think they're listening. I think they have quite a good picture of what is said here. Why wouldn't they, free market input like this is invaluable. There is most likely a rational reason to not continuing with the product line. Even if that maybe isn't the reason, I can't help ask myself how many potential customers there actually are for a successor to the D2? Are there more than ten persons here on the forum that makes their voices heard in this matter? How many would that correspond to among all potential consumers? Maybe, they sell a lot more D-lux 3 and 4, indicating what price level most people are willing to accept for a camera they can't upgrade in any way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted February 21, 2009 Share #12 Posted February 21, 2009 What I enjoy the most is how someone ask about the Digilux 3 and right away the thread is hijacked for D2 requests. Sorry lad, but it's fun. We should try the same in the M8 forum when someone ask for a M9 Anyhow, I think there would be a considerable market because I get a lot of mails from people who bought their Digilux 2. Secondhand, cheap camera and all yes, but nevertheless. But it would require a reposition as to what camera it is. And I would say an all-round reportage camera, a silent high-producing camera, simple camera for journalists to carry and use when doing both text and pictures (as is done more and more). UNCOMPLICATED! SILENT! ALL-ROUND! QUALITY! I have SO many people asking what camera to get. And in so many cases the Digilux 2 would be the alternative answer. Because the answer usually is D-Lux 4 (so you always carry a camera, thus can actually take pictures), then a dSLR if your ambitions go higher for tele, DOF and all (which would be Canon or Nikon). But for many needs, Digilux 2.2 actually is the answer and in the same price range as Canon 5D II and Nikon 300 or 700. (And Leica should upgrade the D-Lux 5 towards a Leica simpliciity combined with D-Lux 4 design and lens, Canon S10 build and pixels, because many wanting to do pro quality pictures with a pocket camera would look to the S10. But Leica can do better lens, simpler usability and design to crave for) So reposition a Digilux 2.2 would be necessary. Ambitions are for small dSLR's because that is what is usually associated with the possibilities, price, image quality, etc. Wonder how many upgraded from Digilux 2 to a Leica M camera..? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2009 Share #13 Posted February 21, 2009 Wonder how many upgraded from Digilux 2 to a Leica M camera..? Very perceptive remark. I cannot claim an upgrade, as I did posses a M6TTL and an M3 ( and a Canon 10D, 300D and 1D) but I did buy a Digilux2 to bridge the "digital gap" between the Leica film cameras and my Canon DSLR gear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted February 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted February 22, 2009 FYI, a larger sensor will also require that the new, improved D2 use a different lens, because the image circle will need to be proportionally larger to cover a larger sensor. Part of the reason the D2 gets away with using as compact of a lens as it does is due to the small size of the sensor that it has to cover. Change this and you'll need to change the lens as well. On the other hand, there's nothing to prevent Panasonic/Leica from replacing the existing sensor with a same-size one with improved performance (many of the new class of video cameras use a similar size sensor, so adapting one to still camera use shouldn't be too difficult), in which case the original D2 lens could be reused, assuming it has sufficient reserves of resolution to take advantage of an improved sensor. I think what is implied by "larger sensor" is more megapixels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted February 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted February 22, 2009 Well, I followed the Digilux 2 activity on eBay for several months. A by-product of that was watching the lack of activity on Digilux 3s and DMC L1s. The Digilux 2s seemed to get gobbled up ... granted at a lower price. But, none-the-less, the move like hot-cakes. Everyone loves a bargain... and currently, the Digilux 2 is a steal. But, as Thorsten pointed out, if a TRUE upgrade to the Digilux 2 were to hit the shelves in the $2500-$3000 range, I'd be all over it. I guess our friends at Leica simply can't see the forest for the trees. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted February 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted February 22, 2009 We've made these pleas before - but I don't think they're listening. Maybe they aren't listening because they think products like the S2 and the R10 along with new M lenses and a future new M body are the true core of Leica's business and it's future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 22, 2009 Share #17 Posted February 22, 2009 It's really all about Panasonic, folks. Let's not forget the Digilux 2 is in fact a rebadged LC1, such a camera will undoubtedly cannibalize Panasonic's Micro 4/3 adventure - anything in their way has to disappear, the FZ series, classic 4/3, and the would be LC2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marqos Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted February 22, 2009 Interesting posts. Thank you for your responses! I agree with a lot that has been said, but as good as the Digilux 2 was I feel it would be a mistake for Leica to make another single lens camera above the D-Lux 4. I would be really happy to see a camera that has many of the qualities the Digilux 2 had, but interchangable lenses is very important to me. For me, I don't enjoy zoom lenses as much as primes. They have their purpose, but I feel prime lenses give you the opportunity to be at the right place at the right time. Zooms feel more like cropping in camera. I'd really like to see a system camera with prime lenses and zooms for those who prefer. And I feel Leica should seriously look at making two price levels of full frame sensor slr cameras. Then Leica could release lessor priced r lenses similarly to how they have released f2.5's for the M. How about a Full Frame Digilux 4 with 12 or 16 mp and a Full Frame R10 with 24 mp? I can see this being a possibility. I'll bet we will see a 3 level slr line, the S2, the R10, DR4(Digilux4). While I hope something comes out soon, I do appreciate it if Leica takes their time to make sure they get it right this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joppepop Posted February 22, 2009 Share #19 Posted February 22, 2009 Wonder how many upgraded from Digilux 2 to a Leica M camera..? I'm pretty close to become one of them... Yet, I can no longer say that I would be upgrading since my old D2 is gone, but the camera per se started a thought. However, since I don't yet have the currage to spend that amount of money on a M system I'll sit tight in the boat and await what's happening. Meanwhile, my D3 and my current lenses suits me well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Kennett Posted February 22, 2009 Share #20 Posted February 22, 2009 Strangely, I do not want to replace my Digilux 3 as I happen to think that it is a very fine instrument which like, almost everything, is not perfect. Having said that, I would like to see Leica espouse the additional lenses marketed under the Leica banner by Panasonic, and also to build up the system. The SF 58 flashgun as at last appeared with a hefty price tag, which is I guess par for the course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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