petermcwerner Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share #181 Posted February 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The S2 will be here soon...There is a big difference between hand-tuning a few prototypes and building a reliable production model. Reliability has not been the strong point of Solms-made digital cameras, be it the DMR or the M8s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 Hi petermcwerner, Take a look here Panasonic in talks to buy Leica from Mr. Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
charlesphoto99 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #182 Posted February 12, 2009 The S2 will be here soon... ...and very few will be able to afford, whether it works flawlessly or not. I'm sure that Leica thought all systems were go when they released the M8, "vertical integration" (???) or not. Of course that soon turned out to not be true. The only Leica products with few electronic issues have been the rebranded Panasonic (no wonder they offer a 3 year warranty with the D-Lux 4 and only two with the much more expensive M8). And yes I'm familiar with the working conditions in Japan/China (everyone should see Burtynsky's Manufactured Landscapes) but we would have to live in a bubble (or make lots and lots of money - or no money at all) if we were to live our lives avoiding that. That said, there are a lot worse working conditions in the US than probably anywhere in Japan - peanut butter cookie anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted February 12, 2009 Share #183 Posted February 12, 2009 Quite Rolls Royce and Bentley were symbols of British industry. Look what happened to them... It took VW well over a year to bring the quality control at Bentley up to their standards. Insider knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted February 12, 2009 Share #184 Posted February 12, 2009 Shall we wait till it comes out and see if and how well it works? So far, nothing of what Leica showed off at Photokina has made it to the market yet. Well the new wide angles are becoming available, I've had one for a month and I'm all the way out in Australia. The M8.2 is available. Also the new compacts. No S2 yet, it is true. I think Doug is referring to the design development time, compared to the gestation of the R9/DMR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted February 13, 2009 Share #185 Posted February 13, 2009 Perfectly unfounded statement . Since the S2 has not even been released there is not basis for this claim."Vertical integration" - ????????????????? The prototypes at photokina were handled by a large number of people who had not been trained in its proper use and they experienced no glitches. If you will recall the DMR's problems and ultimately its demise in the marketplace were the direct result of outsourcing the production and firmware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted February 13, 2009 Share #186 Posted February 13, 2009 The prototypes at photokina were handled by a large number of people who had not been trained in its proper use and they experienced no glitches. If you will recall the DMR's problems and ultimately its demise in the marketplace were the direct result of outsourcing the production and firmware. Sorry, your logic fails me ! Absolutely baseless grounds for your assertion. Once the camera is released we will see performance and reliability . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 13, 2009 Share #187 Posted February 13, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If Leica becomes a subsidiary of Panasonic, their R/D expenditure could easily double, triple, quadruple ... Panasonic will pay that bill? Why? Only if sales of Leica products easily double, triple, quadruple... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted February 13, 2009 Share #188 Posted February 13, 2009 Sorry, your logic fails me ! Absolutely baseless grounds for your assertion. Once the camera is released we will see performance and reliability . Peter, all I can suggest is that you choose your seasonings well else your words will have an unsavory taste to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted February 13, 2009 Share #189 Posted February 13, 2009 The prototypes at photokina were handled by a large number of people who had not been trained in its proper use and they experienced no glitches. If you will recall the DMR's problems and ultimately its demise in the marketplace were the direct result of outsourcing the production and firmware. Did they take photographs with them or just handle them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted February 13, 2009 Share #190 Posted February 13, 2009 Did they take photographs with them or just handle them? They made photographs with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted February 13, 2009 Share #191 Posted February 13, 2009 Peter, all I can suggest is that you choose your seasonings well else your words will have an unsavory taste to them. Doug, Sorry - it came off a bit caustic. No offense was intended. We all share your optimism for the S2 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted February 13, 2009 Share #192 Posted February 13, 2009 All of this bruhaha and speculation is growing from one nth-hand rumor note from dpreview? You gotta be kidding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermcwerner Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share #193 Posted February 13, 2009 All of this bruhaha and speculation is growing from one nth-hand rumor note from dpreview?.Indeed incredible, but if it was not sustainded by such a plausible industrial and economic logic, it would have never reached the amplitude it did on this and other media. There is a French saying Il n'y a de fumée sans feu (no smoke without fire) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted February 13, 2009 Share #194 Posted February 13, 2009 They made photographs with them. Anywhere on the web that these can be viewed, not that web-shots will give much of a clue about the potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 13, 2009 Share #195 Posted February 13, 2009 No At these dos they don't let you take stuff away, otherwise Beta0.001 fireware shots would be pored over and criticized to wherever on the Internet LFI had some last time, and no doubt S2s will be out and about with the top dogs in the next couple of months. Expect a "I saw an odd, big Leica SLR at the footie last night" threads any week soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted February 13, 2009 Share #196 Posted February 13, 2009 Some thoughts: People talk about how deep Mr. Kaufmann's pockets are. People with deep pockets didn't get them by holding onto a company that makes losses year after year. It's possible that a couple of years of brisk sales, on a new product, can cover some losses, but continuing, grinding losses will wipe out sporadic profits. I know this for sure. 8-P Panasonic could benefit from a line of "premium" lenses with a "premium" name, like the Zeiss lenses now being sold for the Sony 900. They might not match the hand-made lenses of the past, but they could still be extremely good -- 99.5% of the quality, rather than 95%. I don't see Panasonic being much interested in mechanical rangefinders; in such a deal, I think the traditional Leica cameras would be dropped. The G1 is one about one or two generations from being a terrific M8 replacement, if Panasonic wanted to do it -- a better EVIL with manually switched frames, a bigger LCD on the back, fast focus confirm, a FF or 1.3x sensor with D3-level ISO and noise response, ~18-21mp, a line of non-premium automatic lenses as a complement to the Leica-branded lenses, all in a Leica-sized or smaller camera...what's not to like? The problem with the G1 right now is the Panasonic lenses, especially the wides, according to some serious reviews on the net. Leica could be the answer to that. Whether or not this is simply a rumor, there are aspects of such a deal that make a lot of sense. And a final comment: I carried my D3 and D300 with f2.8 zooms all over a flea market a few days ago, and by the end of the day, I could feel it. We *really* need small cameras with small lenses and Nikon/Canon/Sony levels of functionality and image quality. I'm sure it can be done -- Leica does it on IQ, even if all the functionality isn't there. A really good Japanese electronics/computer company might be able to drag Leica into the second half of the Twentieth Century. JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 13, 2009 Share #197 Posted February 13, 2009 It takes Nikon, Canon an average 24 to 36 months to bring an "update" to their top dogs, last time I heard someone on this board claiming that by the time Lee was fired, Leica had no plan/progress on any reflex camera at all because of all the damages Lee caused, so in less than 12 months, they've already got a "top dog" from scratch??? I would say the days of Nikon and Canon are numbered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 13, 2009 Share #198 Posted February 13, 2009 If you refer to my "top dog" reference, I was meaning the photographers, not the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabelle Lenatio Posted February 13, 2009 Share #199 Posted February 13, 2009 Are you sure this 'serious banker didn't just omit the indefinite article by mistake? Maybe Panasonic are thinking of buying 'a Leica', rather than 'Leica'. Hehehehehe I like that ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 13, 2009 Share #200 Posted February 13, 2009 If you refer to my "top dog" reference, I was meaning the photographers, not the camera. So you don't think the camera is a "top dog" ... Seriously, Andy ... if they can build a S2 in less than 12 months, what's taking them so long for a R10? and Dr. Kaufmann says we'll have wait and "see"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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