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M9 Concept sketch - traditional approach

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IMHO, however, the elegant proportions of the M3 and sisters were already ruined by the additional height of the M6TTL and M7; the extra thickness of the M8 was merely a small additional ugliness.

 

You are probably quite correct with your statement, but remember the Leica is not a Show Pony, but in fact a Work Horse.

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You are probably quite correct with your statement, but remember the Leica is not a Show Pony, but in fact a Work Horse.

 

Agreed. I bought the M8 for what it does, not how it looks. But it's always good if a tool is elegant as well as effective.

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Actually, using an M3 and M8 side by side, for my hands the extra thickness of the M8 is more pleasant to grip. But the M3 looks much nicer, in its sleeker form.

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In my opinion, using a cocking lever only helps you lose sight of what you are aiming at and adds to camera movement.

 

 

I might buy that reasoning...if it weren't for the fact that photographers have gotten along quite nicely with them for about 60 years. I'm sympathetic to your being "left eyed," but you are probably one in a thousand in that respect.

 

Add me to the long list of those who want a manual shutter cocking thumb lever. It would also make the camera quieter and greatly extend battery life.

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I might buy that reasoning...if it weren't for the fact that photographers have gotten along quite nicely with them for about 60 years. I'm sympathetic to your being "left eyed," but you are probably one in a thousand in that respect.

 

They got along with Speed Graphics and Rolleis for a long time too. So what?

When motor drives and auto winders became available, photographers bought them in droves.

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They got along with Speed Graphics and Rolleis for a long time too. So what?

When motor drives and auto winders became available, photographers bought them in droves.

 

Motor drives went on the Nikons and Canons. You did not see Leica M shooters putting motors on their cameras "in droves." And the main reason they went on the Nikons and Canons was so a dozen shots could be fired off in the time it normally took to get a couple off without the motor. This appealed to sports shooters, but I never heard anyone proclaiming steadiness as a primary reason for getting a motor drive. I never had any desire to put a motor on any of my film Ms, nor do I have any desire to have one on my digital M. I am hardly alone in this regard. I believe the vast majority of M8 owners would very much prefer to have the manual shutter cock.

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Motor drives went on the Nikons and 9Canons. You did not see Leica M shooters putting motors on their cameras "in droves." And the main reason they went on the Nikons and Canons was so a dozen shots could be fired off in the time it normally took to get a couple off without the motor. This appealed to sports shooters, but I never heard anyone proclaiming steadiness as a primary reason for getting a motor drive. I never had any desire to put a motor on any of my film Ms, nor do I have any desire to have one on my digital M. I am hardly alone in this regard. I believe the vast majority of M8 owners would very much prefer to have the manual shutter cock.

 

Brent, there are those of us, me included, who have benefited measurable by the facility of non-manual advance. My preference is for a winder rather than a MD. My (past) Hasselblad performance was substantially improved, both in steadyness of camera and continuity of holding a subject in frame by simply adding the winder. My Leica R8 shooting benefited from the addition of the winder for same reasoning.

 

My preference for the next M9+ would be a duplication of the R8/9 system where moving the wind lever from 'park' engages the manual system; leaving it in park defaults to winder.

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Years ago, I switched from manual wind Hassy 500Cs to motorized Rollei 6006s and it made it much easier to shoot hand held. With every motorized camera, I generally shoot a single frame at a time and almost never shoot in burst mode.

 

Part of the reason that the lever isn't too bad on an M is that you are generally not using long lenses and the viewfinder frames pretty loosely. So the fact that things move around a bit each time you advance a frame may not be significant or it may be overlooked.

 

And when your camera was limited to 36 frames, was slow to load and rewind, you might be more likely to try to make every picture count. Of course in the process of doing that, you might miss a fleeting expression. It goes both ways.

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I believe the vast majority of M8 owners would very much prefer to have the manual shutter cock.

 

Not this one.

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No thumb wind wanted by me.

 

If the motor fairs into the line of the camera with no (or very little) grip, I love it: Canon AE-1 + winder, Nikon N1000, Contax ST, Contax RX, Contax Aria, Contax G, Konica RF. I hated that Nikon made the motorized F4 so lumpy 'cause I wanted the pro build with an N1000 profile and manual controls.

 

Love the motor in the M8 (Love the quiet motor in the M8.u or M8.2 even better!!)

 

I'm sympathetic to your being "left eyed," but you are probably one in a thousand in that respect.

 

Oops! Try 1 in 3 instead of 1 in a 1000.

 

Are You Right Eyed Or Left Eyed?

 

Isn't it a bitch when facts get in the way of uninformed preconceptions and prejudice?

 

BTW - I'm right-eyed - and still love the motor.

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I believe the vast majority of M8 owners would very much prefer to have the manual shutter cock.

 

I've always been a minority, I guess.

For me it would be a deal-breaker. It was on the RD1 (amongst other things)

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It would still be a bit lumpy. The M7 with winder is. I think I would still stick with the M8.

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What if a FF manual wind M9 could be made the same size as the M7 with compatability with the current M winder?

 

I think we can all imagine how much Leica would charge for an M9 Winder-M. I think the current model is around $1000 and that would probably be a bargain compared to what that one would cost.

 

So, once you dropped $6,500 (or more) on the body, you would get need fork over another $1000 or more for the motor.

 

And if you wanted the extended battery pack you would suddenly have a Leica that's a 10 inches tall....

;-)

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Motor drives went on the Nikons and Canons. You did not see Leica M shooters putting motors on their cameras "in droves."...

 

I am not an expert when it comes to M winders or motors. But from what I can tell in my limited research, they weren't very good. Plus some of them were huge. Maybe that had a lot to do with their lack of popularity - they didn't seem to have a good design until the M-Motor around 2000.

 

M Motors

 

Now that the motor is incorporated into the basic body without adding to size and weight, this is a different situation.

 

I recently saw an exhibit of work by Lawrence Schiller. I noticed that in this image from the Ali-Patterson fight in 1965 there is a wide variety of cameras being used. The only one with a motor is a Leica.

 

11/08 - Lawrence Schiller - Adamson Gallery

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Plus some of them were huge.

 

That was more likely a function of battery technology, rather than real choice on the part of Leica.

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That was more likely a function of battery technology, rather than real choice on the part of Leica.

 

That is precisely the point. It probably was the size and weight of the motors that limited their acceptance, not the idea of shooting with a motorized advance. Yet despite the bulk and weight, this photographer was the only one who chose to use a motor drive, and it was on a Leica.

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That was more likely a function of battery technology, rather than real choice on the part of Leica.

 

The original motor for the M4-MOTwas huge. Seriously, with the battery pack it was like holding a shoebox in front of your face. I think that's the one in Alan's photo.

 

The next model (that was replaced by the current Winder-M) was about as big as the Winder-R. Again, quite a beast for a camera the size of the M.

 

The current Winder-M is a reasonable size, but the handgrip that contains the batteries is a PIA. Everytime I handle one of these I have visions of the grip snapping off if it got caught on something.

 

I think the perfect size Winder would be no bigger than a Rapidwinder, with the batteries carried internal.

 

But to be honest I think the built in winder in the M8 is great. I wish it shot as high as 5fps. For professional shooting a motor is pretty much a must these days. I mainly miss the advance lever for the grip it offered. Other than that I can live with the motor.

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Oops! Try 1 in 3 instead of 1 in a 1000.

 

Are You Right Eyed Or Left Eyed?

 

Isn't it a bitch when facts get in the way of uninformed preconceptions and prejudice?

 

 

In the context of this discussion, I was referring to the presumed number of people who actually use their left eye for shooting with a camera. If that number is one out of three I'll stand corrected, but I have my doubts.

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