JE Posted January 15, 2009 Share #41 Posted January 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would like to see people only showcase their very best shots, the ones really worthy of hanging on the wall. That's the answer. If everyone only posted their best shot or shots they'd like help with or have particular questions about we'd have less and most likely better images to go through. I'm guilty of posting technically crap images and images whose subject is perhaps not interesting to most so I'm not speaking as one who always posts the ones really worth hanging on the wall. There are some incredible, creative images here but they often get lost among less incredible, less creative and IMO uninspired, boring photos. A healthy dose of criticism (and perhaps thicker skin on some of us) can't hurt. J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Hi JE, Take a look here comments on posted pics. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andcolor Posted January 15, 2009 Share #42 Posted January 15, 2009 I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted January 16, 2009 Share #43 Posted January 16, 2009 I'm with J. self criticism should be a rule. Sometimes I posted crappy pictures, maybe just pictures that may have been meaningful to me only. Most of the time, when I posted bad pictures I received no post at all, it's the way it goes. That's all, if someone's not realistic enough to understand that, well, probably a negative feedback to his work won't make any difference to him. Anyway, I love the strenght of Stuart to watch and comment (almost) every single picture in here, and I still believe that you may receive or not a positive feedback to your pictures, but if you compare you work to that of other members's, you can easily come to an end by yourself. That's what makes the Photo section so positive anyway to me. Maybe to get involved into something improving for our creativity, we should add a "photo-contest" section. Some of us may find it useful, who knows? BTW it could be funny if we take the challenge in the positive spin only. Ciao Maurizio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 16, 2009 Share #44 Posted January 16, 2009 We have the Barnack Challenge, for those using LTM cameras and bodies every month, or so, and every year we have the One Challenge, of course. There is even a prize for that one! Perhaps we could organise more "challenges" this year. One month specifically for film Ms/Rs, one month for M8 users, one month for small digitals, and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_reinierv Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #45 Posted January 16, 2009 self critism is always good but sometimes you just fail to see what it is because you have an emotional binding with the moment that others haven't. And they you post it and get slaughterd And in the end you deep in yourself have to admit they are right. I had a series once of about 9 pictures (buy buy, als shown here) and when I showed it to others they all took 3 out of them and claimed that was more than enough for the series. For me, I admit now, it was difficult to leave the 6 others our because for me they had something to tell that wanted me to keep them in eventhough deep inside I knew those had some flaws Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted January 16, 2009 Share #46 Posted January 16, 2009 We have the Barnack Challenge, for those using LTM cameras and bodies every month, or so, and every year we have the One Challenge, of course. There is even a prize for that one! Perhaps we could organise more "challenges" this year. One month specifically for film Ms/Rs, one month for M8 users, one month for small digitals, and so on. Sounds good! I already know of the One Challenge, and my vote this year should be still there, unfortunately not my pictures Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted January 16, 2009 Share #47 Posted January 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) self critism is always good but sometimes you just fail to see what it is because you have an emotional binding with the moment that others haven't Self criticism, should be not ignoring the infamous question "Does this picture means something to me only?". That's right one of the things I was actually meaning with "self-criticsm". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted January 16, 2009 Share #48 Posted January 16, 2009 We have the Barnack Challenge, for those using LTM cameras and bodies every month, or so, and every year we have the One Challenge, of course. There is even a prize for that one! Perhaps we could organise more "challenges" this year. One month specifically for film Ms/Rs, one month for M8 users, one month for small digitals, and so on. I agree, good idea for those who want the competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 16, 2009 Share #49 Posted January 16, 2009 self critism is always good but sometimes you just fail to see what it is because you have an emotional binding with the moment that others haven't. Editing is difficult, that's for sure. When I was posting a picture a week I'd be selecting a 'winner' plus a couple of alternatives every week. Whittling down the 100-150 frames I took each week to say 10 was usually pretty easy. Selecting 3-4 from those 10 was _much_ more difficult. The trick is probably to have someone else select the best images, but they'd probably choose the wrong ones <grin>. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 18, 2009 Share #50 Posted January 18, 2009 I read that a number of posters to this thread are concerned about good work dropping off the front page as a result of bulk mediocre-to-poor postings and multiple 'thank you' comments. It gently irritates me too. Perhaps this is a reflection on the fast pace at which most of us live our lives today but there is an easy answer: we don't have to constrain ourself only to page one. It only takes a moment to open pages 2, 3, or 4 and to look at the posts there too. We've made the time to look in the photo forum so we might be able to find the time to look beyond the front page. That said, I agree with the majority of what's already been said and I think that the photo forums are a healthy and 'safe' environment and a credit to forum as a whole. But of course it's actually the members who are the photo forums isn't it? Here's my "thank you" to all those who have generously shared their images and to those who have taken the time to view my own postings but particularly to those who have made the effort to comment. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted January 18, 2009 Share #51 Posted January 18, 2009 bulk mediocre-to-poor postings and multiple 'thank you' comments. ........yep you have to time it post too early and you are on page 2 within half an hour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_reinierv Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share #52 Posted January 19, 2009 Now here is exacly an example what I mean http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/75541-m8-beautiful-girl.html this picture is in my opinion terrible, the lighting is a horror and this ruins the pic. Now look at the comments, all positive, nobody except me makes any notice of the terrible light so I start wondering of we do that just to be nice and sacrificy honesty, or do we really not see the big major flaw in this pic. You may notice I did not post anything recently because I think the all positive attitude towards comments makes them useless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted January 19, 2009 Share #53 Posted January 19, 2009 Now here is exacly an example what I mean this picture is in my opinion terrible, the lighting is a horror and this ruins the pic. Now look at the comments, all positive, nobody except me makes any notice of the terrible light so I start wondering of we do that just to be nice and sacrificy honesty, or do we really not see the big major flaw in this pic. You may notice I did not post anything recently because I think the all positive attitude towards comments makes them useless. I don't understand why this should bother you. You have pointed out an issue with this image that others did not see or mention. Others did mention what they liked, mostly the unusual pose. Your post added something in my view. Soooo, what's the problem? Let's keep in mind that this is simply a friendly, open forum for anyone with Leica equipment who cares to join in. It is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 19, 2009 Share #54 Posted January 19, 2009 Now here is exacly an example what I mean this picture is in my opinion terrible, the lighting is a horror and this ruins the pic. Now look at the comments, all positive, nobody except me makes any notice of the terrible light so I start wondering of we do that just to be nice and sacrificy honesty, or do we really not see the big major flaw in this pic. You may notice I did not post anything recently because I think the all positive attitude towards comments makes them useless. Unfortunately in your critique you've used the term "absolutely horrible", which is emotive, perhaps inflated, and liable to be quite hurtful to the OP. I support how you've justified your dislike of the picture by describing areas where it is lacking because it offers the OP and others an insight on areas to work on but I suspect that the potential lesson may be lost on the OP as he recoils from your harsh opening words. Criticism of others' work is a very touchy area and I'll admit you would have received some sharp words from me if you'd left a comment containing the words "absolutely horrible" on one of mine because I would take your tone to be deliberately condescending and dimissive. I think that most posters are reasonably proud of the pictures that they post - that's a little part of the reason for posting I suspect - so by insulting the posting you also insult the OP. Perhaps this is the biggest problem that critics of the photo forum face: offering honest criticism in such a way that spares the OP's feelings. How would you feel if someone left an "absolutely horrible" comment on a posting of yours that you felt even a little proud of? Sure, it's a risk all posters take, but I'd like to think that the 'civilised' forum that this is reassures potential posters that they are unlikely to receive open abuse. And so far that's pretty much true. I suggest that a good rule of thumb to follow before posting a critique is: "How would I like someone to say this about one of my pictures?". It's not foolproof because we all have different tolerance thresholds but it would filter out many of the unintentionally hurtful comments. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_reinierv Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share #55 Posted January 19, 2009 No, I do not say the picture is horrible, I state that: The light is horrible that is a big difference... I think there is nothing wrong with a critical view and it seems that is lacking here. Calling hurray at every picture as it seesm to be common here that comes by is also for the maker useless I thought in this thread there was some agrement on that but it seems I'm wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 19, 2009 Share #56 Posted January 19, 2009 No, I do not say the picture is horrible, I state that: that is a big difference... I think there is nothing wrong with a critical view and it seems that is lacking here. Calling hurray at every picture as it seesm to be common here that comes by is also for the maker useless I thought in this thread there was some agrement on that but it seems I'm wrong I agree with you that there is a big difference. I also agree that a critical view is important and I wasn't wishing to imply otherwise, but to make the point that the way the criticism is given is equally important. (I wasn't aiming criticism at you and if I came across that way I apologise. After all, English is my second language, gibberish being my first. ) Quite often in my professional life, as I feel sure others do, I have to give criticism on others' work and it is easy to unintentionally crush someone by using certain terms. On the other hand there is little point in only making encouraging comments even when work is poor because that degrades the value of the criticism. It's a fine line. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted January 20, 2009 Share #57 Posted January 20, 2009 Maybe the poster should make a comment on why?, what ? etc eg http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/75680-my-reasons.html#post786500 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 20, 2009 Share #58 Posted January 20, 2009 Now here is exacly an example what I mean this picture is in my opinion terrible, the lighting is a horror and this ruins the pic. Now look at the comments, all positive, nobody except me makes any notice of the terrible light so I start wondering of we do that just to be nice and sacrificy honesty, or do we really not see the big major flaw in this pic. You may notice I did not post anything recently because I think the all positive attitude towards comments makes them useless. C'est le ton qui fait la musique, my grandmother used to say. You could have posted "in my opinion a different lighting could have greatly improved this picture, that has the potential of being very good" or something like that. I noticed that you did post in this constructive way on a picture of mine that had attracted a number of positives, and that sparked a discussion (although we did still not agree in the end, but that is fine ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_reinierv Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share #59 Posted January 20, 2009 what is in a name, should we carefully consider every single word we write to avoid that maybe perhaps there is a slight chance that the poster is one of those few with and oversensitive heart and perhaps may be hurt in his feelings... There is something called overdoing it. If you post a pic to the world you must be able to deal with critism. There is nothing wrong with that as long it is open and not targetted to the person. There is nothing wrong with saying that "you did something really wrong here" as long as you point out what was wrong and how it could be improved. Just do not be afraid of a negative word in the right context. If you try to change bad into sub-optimal it becomes just funnny. As you can see the poster wasn't hurt. No, even better, he took the advice given, we came to more examples after working with the pic...so probably in the end I think he and maybe others learned something... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdb Posted January 20, 2009 Share #60 Posted January 20, 2009 what is in a name, should we carefully consider every single word we write to avoid that maybe perhaps there is a slight chance that the poster is one of those few with and oversensitive heart and perhaps may be hurt in his feelings... There is something called overdoing it. If you post a pic to the world you must be able to deal with critism. There is nothing wrong with that as long it is open and not targetted to the person. There is nothing wrong with saying that "you did something really wrong here". As you can see the poster wasn't hurt. No, even better, he took the advice given, we came to more examples after working with the pic...so probably in the end I think he and maybe others learned something... Correct, and I would encourage you to continue posting your comments and criticisms as you see fit. That is what we all should do. There will always be widely varying opinions given the nature of photography. So let's not be surprised when we see contradictory comments on the same image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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