Handholding at low speeds-technique

[glenerrolrd]

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Howard

 

I had seen that and the vertical (portrait) mode ..has the "flying elbow" issue. I was sure in some of the older leica instructions that they show the shutter on the low side and the elbows in.

 

With a DSLR you have the accessory grip a vertical shutter release. Elbows in.

 

I will have to dig thru my old leica stuff to see if my memory is correct.

 

Thanks for posting the illustration.

 

Roger

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[ho_co]

I think I recall a 'finder up' position as well, and firing with the thumb. Maybe in earlier manuals or books?

[Skippy Sanchez]

while this applies to big ol' honkin' SLRs, it has some very interesting thoughts on gaining a couple stops:

[jaapv]

I think I recall a 'finder up' position as well, and firing with the thumb. Maybe in earlier manuals or books?

Which I prefer of the two possibilities (#2). The "classic" way(#1)s less stable imo.

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[diogenis]

Ok. Nice thread Jaap.

From your photos, especially the last ones, I can see, that if you use that Leica grip, it leaves very little room for your fingers NOT to cover the RF window. Especially in your last photo. You are right about holding the camera this way however, except one point: it stretches and stresses your right hand a lot, and it also hides your right eye as well. Therefore arms are secure, but does it feel comfortable?

[jaapv]

Yes, I find it more comfortable than the "waving arm" grip. As for the rangefinder window, focussing is more accurate with the camera horizontal (another thread??), so I focus horizontally and swing the camera down.

[luigi bertolotti]

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Which I prefer of the two possibilities (#2). The "classic" way(#1)s less stable imo.

 

Yes : "Elbow low - hold breath" is my golden rule too, and in verticals, tend to use the first finger on the button... much more natural and assures stability on the vertical axis (no wrist torsion).

Your 1st posted position ("flying elbow") isn't the best... but the watch looks fine

[glenerrolrd]

And here you have :

 

YES

 

and

 

NO

 

Notice the difference is how the photographer looks to the subject. Elbows in makes the photographer less visable.....a smaller figure to the subject.

 

The other interesting difference is in the preferred method ...the left eye is open. One of my friends , a fulltime photojournalist, told me that keeping the eye open is important in how subjects see you. He feels the subject can more easily see that you are not a threat.

 

The new 1.4X magnifier is supposed to create an almost 1.00 view with the M8 , making this easier.

 

This has nothing to do with holding the camera for slow shutter speeds but the photos are a great illustration.

 

Roger

[danyves]

Yes in vertical do use first finger, not the thumb. First finger does oblige to a better grip and handling of the Leica. From the film M. Thumb for the cocking lever. Thum hold the M Body on the rear side.

[fotografr]

Do you find that a camera grip helps? Or a leather case? If so, which would you recommend?

Peter

 

The thing I find most useful is the Thumbs Up. It really helps stabilize the camera by allowing the user to really pull the camera body snugly into the right palm.

[diogenis]

Yes, I find it more comfortable than the "waving arm" grip. As for the rangefinder window, focussing is more accurate with the camera horizontal (another thread??), so I focus horizontally and swing the camera down.

 

Why not in this thread?

I thought that focusing was precise no matter the orientation, as long as you could find straight lines to match.

I will try with first thumb elbow down position though...

[ChrisC]

.... Elbows in makes the photographer less visable.....a smaller figure to the subject.....

 

Yeah, but that shoulder tension is a killer.

 

................. Chris

[jaapv]

Yes : "Elbow low - hold breath" is my golden rule too, and in verticals, tend to use the first finger on the button... much more natural and assures stability on the vertical axis (no wrist torsion).

Your 1st posted position ("flying elbow") isn't the best... but the watch looks fine

 

Of the two - finger or thumb, the thumb is more comfortable to me. A matter of personal anatomy I suppose. The most comfortable camera to use in that position is of course the DMR, with its extra release button. It was a major disappointment to me that the grip is just a holding device, and lacks any extra release button in an ergonomic place. But I suppose that comes from the lack of an electric remote release on the M8.

[luigi bertolotti]

Of the two - finger or thumb, the thumb is more comfortable to me. A matter of personal anatomy I suppose. The most comfortable camera to use in that position is of course the DMR, with its extra release button. It was a major disappointment to me that the grip is just a holding device, and lacks any extra release button in an ergonomic place. But I suppose that comes from the lack of an electric remote release on the M8.

 

... bah... my English... with the term "first finger" I indeed meant "thumb"...

[jaapv]

Which only means that Italian is a more logical language than English

[Pointcolville]

I would still quibble with your Yes shot, I think it is better to lay your finger over the shutter release, with the tip resting on the speed dial, that way a slight flexing of the finger is enough to fire the shutter and there is little, or no downward pressure on the camera.

 

At least that is what I am trying at the moment and it seems to work.

 

Others will doubtless disagree.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks for the idea, Guernsey Tom. By the way, my Great Aunt lived at Les Bas Courtills north of St. Peter Port until just a few years ago.

 

I tried releasing the shutter as you described and found that it works very well, but makes me feel as though my finger is bending the wrong way. The sensation brought an expression to my face similar to Jaap's #2 "how not to" photo.

[Anguish]

Roger said this:

 

"Years back we used to drop the shutter release to the bottom as this keeps the elbows in."

 

This is in contrast to the above official instruction.

 

Roger is correct, for many obvious reasons. Finally, the word is out.

[geoffreyg]

Roger said this:

 

"Years back we used to drop the shutter release to the bottom as this keeps the elbows in."

 

This is in contrast to the above official instruction.

 

Roger is correct, for many obvious reasons. Finally, the word is out.

 

Jaap - great shots.

 

I was taught a modification of this method by an old Time-Life Leica guy (Gjon Mili) some 40 years ago. We used to practice this for a day, and get it down to 1/8 with some practice. I never got your 1/4 shots, but some could....

 

The basic idea was that any working part of the process (focus, fstop, etc) could cuase instability, and should be separate from the secure holding of the camera.

 

Start with relaxed position, gently spread feet, centered body, slow breathing. Shutter release is on the exhale, gentle squeeze. sort of zen like, exhale a few times to get set.

 

For the horiz shot - the camera is to be supported almost entirely on the left hand. Here's how it works:

 

- the left elbow firmly inboard, is held tight to the body, practically jammed into the ribs, for stability. This is key, for the left hand opens out, and becomes the base for the camera. The last 2-3 fingers of the left hand are unfolded flat - horiz., and do no work other than making a base platform for the camera (actually this is true both horiz. and vertical positions). The thumb and first finger of the left hand are not used to hold the camera, for they are busy doing the focus work. But they must do their fine work from underneath the lens, thus not impacting the rest of the left hand. Focus from above the lens can only be for setup work,not final shot work - because the left hand has to be below the camera. You'll find this frees the thumb and first finger of the left hand to work on focus and f stop, while at the same time the rest of the hand is setting up for support.

 

- the "working fingers" (focus, f stop and shutter) , do their work independent of support. The right side hand (thumb and heel) do some fore/aft support, but mostly to stabilize the camera on the primary support platform, those three fingers of the left hand. The trigger finger then is very controlled and light to the shutter, and has a single purpose of squeezing the shutter, with no other responsibilities. Allows bette concentration.

 

This is also true for the vertical shot - but to work, the shutter goes down on right. Its a bit awkward at first, as one would rather simply rotate the camera up (CCW), but its the other way (shutter down on right) that gives the better support. It works thus:

 

- with the base of the camera up against a vertical left hand. The left elbow again is tight to the body, the left hand is extended flat, and vertical up. The camera is held up by the heel of the right hand, against the left hand platform. Focus and F stop are done by the thumb and first finger of the right hand. The shutter finger (arced from the right) gently comes in from the far right, and does no support work, but rather, its pressure is to push the camera to the left against the vertical left hand support.

 

In both cases, the principle is that active work is separate from support, that pressure on the shutter should push the camera directly against the support, and that each group of fingers have specific and distinct responsibilities. Shutter release is disengaged from support work - for its the mixup of these two functions that causes instability. At least that was the approach then, and it makes a good deal of sense still. If images of this would be helpful, these could be posted. Sorry to be so detailed, but its a great approach, been useful for many years.

 

By the way, Gjon Mili had a wonderful way of carrying his Leica gear - in an old Time Life travel airline bag, a couple of backs and about 4 lenses, no protection, and as he walked, they'd tumble against each other. He got really nice brassing that way. Vintage, to be sure, but great photographer.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[scott kirkpatrick]

There's a lot to think about in this article on hand-holding, hand-holding with support, and the value of image stabilization in the D-3 and E3, compared with the M8. Note the comparison was done back in April 2008 with the old shutter. The key result that still applies was

 

a) low frequency contrast, such as clear subject outlines, can be preserved with good technique, but not high frequency, and that applies to all cameras

 

bracing or support is a BIG help.

 

scott

[brill64]

And here you have :

 

YES

 

and

 

NO...

 

...somehow i didn't imagine you to be western with white hair:)