zapp Posted October 11, 2006 Share #1 Posted October 11, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) At the photokina we saw a whole bunch of new Leica gear. Still, the R-system did not generate much if any news. Some lens designs in the lineup are really outdated by now and should be replaced by modern designs - should have been replaced years ago. The Summicron 35 and 50 are about 30 years old and other companies have shown that the design may be improved significantly. Also, the Summilux 35 and 80 have never been replaced. When will the 24 mm R be repalced, a lens that was not great from the beginning. I am not sure how many Leica photographers switched to zoom lenses and do not demand these classic fixed focal length lenses or large aperture lenses anymore, but if you expect best quality from any given lens in the linup, you should expect more than you can buy right now from Leica. Since digital cameras demand best quality from lenses, the only reason why Leica is waiting to replace these lenses, may be their small budget as well as limited development capacity. In the meantime Leica has replaced all significant M lenses. The M lineup is quite perfect now, time to direct attention back to the R-system - or to drop it in the long run. I supppose the next photokina will show us where the R-system is going. The next 2 years will probably show is where Leica is going overall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 11, 2006 Posted October 11, 2006 Hi zapp, Take a look here R system. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pascal_meheut Posted October 11, 2006 Share #2 Posted October 11, 2006 The Summicron 35 and 50 are about 30 years old and other companies have shown that the design may be improved significantly Do you know a lot of better lenses on the market? Did you tried them on the DMR for instance? Because the 35 is amazing even wide-open. I agree that some lenses could be replaced but over the last 10 years or so, the R system has kept a slow but sustained rate of replacement. For instance, we have been offered: - a new 19mm/2.8, the best on the market - the 280mm/4, best on the market - the modular telyt system - the 180mm/2.8 APO, best on the market - the excellent and not too expensive 21-35 and 35-70 - the 90mm/2 AA, simply amazing - the 15mm/2.8 ASPH, excellent - the new 50mm/1.4 - the 70-180/2.8 Apo, best on the market and a great digital module. I bought a lot of these and because of their prices, I'm glad that Leica does not launch new products at Canon or Nikon rates. But even them are not that fast to renew their high-end lenses range. Maybe not even faster than Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted October 11, 2006 I agree with all that you have said. There is one good thing about Zeiss selling lenses in different mounts now. That is that they can show with some designs that we could expect more from Leica as a competitor. Maybe, I am just ignorand and use an M Leica for wide angle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 11, 2006 Share #4 Posted October 11, 2006 I do get the feeling that R-users are looked down upon by a proportion of M-users. Which is a shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 11, 2006 Share #5 Posted October 11, 2006 I know what you mean Andy. However there is an argument that says that Leica should have dropped the R range years ago and concentrated on the Ms - as someone who uses Rs as well as Ms I'm quite happy that they didn't :-). There were stories a number of years ago about storerooms full of unsold R8s. I imagine M sales considerably outnumber R ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 11, 2006 Share #6 Posted October 11, 2006 Andy, Steve, Agree with you both, as an R user myself. It was a natural progression for Leica to develop SLR cameras with the Leicaflex and onwards, but whereas the lack of development on the M camera aside from built in metering and AE is acceptable, non AF SLR's are less so, and the R range has become outdated to many, or offers a purist's option to others. Having had a play with an R9/DMR at the weekend I'd love to own one, it's an amazing design. I hope Leica continue to develop the R range, surely a dedicated digital body will be next. I like using an SLR - but without AF I do think that its appeal is going to be very very limited. From a personal point of view I don't use AF (apart from P&S cameras) and have never felt that I've been missing out on something, although I'm not an avid sports/action photographer. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlancasterd Posted October 11, 2006 Share #7 Posted October 11, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) From a personal point of view I don't use AF (apart from P&S cameras) and have never felt that I've been missing out on something, although I'm not an avid sports/action photographer. Regards I totally agree with you - I am completely unconvinced of the need for autofocus in SLRs whether they are digital or film. I'd much rather do my own focussing and avoid the problem of focus-hunting that seems to plague all auto-focus cameras from time to time, whoever makes them. I used both the Fuji S1 and S3 whilst waiting for the DMR and swore at them quite regularly when they dithered whilst a picture disappeared... Autofocus is also one of the two things I dislike about the Digilux-2 (the other being the electronic viewfinder). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm1912 Posted October 11, 2006 Share #8 Posted October 11, 2006 I do get the feeling that R-users are looked down upon by a proportion of M-users. Which is a shame. I've got the same feeling, but I don't take them seriously. In my case, when I had the option of choosing a new camera, I wanted the R9 in large because it has no auto-focus. I know I'm in the minority of the camera purchasing public on this one, but I want a photograph to be good and in focus because I did it, not some computer chip in the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted October 11, 2006 Share #9 Posted October 11, 2006 I agree - I like my R and wont give it up. I will get the DMR - but just seen there is a £300+ price rise since summer. Damn!!! I also want a 24mm lens for it and probably a 50mm to go with my 90mm. I do not like the 28-70mm zoom as screen is a little dark and focusing is hard indoors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 11, 2006 Share #10 Posted October 11, 2006 There were stories a number of years ago about storerooms full of unsold R8s. I imagine M sales considerably outnumber R ones. Jacobs in Cross Street (who are useless when you want to order L stuff they don't have in stock, btw) have a brand new, in box R8 on their shelf. It's about £100 cheaper than the brand new R9 sitting next to it. Maybe that's why the R8s were unsold... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted October 11, 2006 Share #11 Posted October 11, 2006 Actually Andy, I ordered my 75mm summicron from New Oxford St - and it took the 2.5 weeks they said AND they called me up to let me know (I was preparing myself to chase them down)... I guess it depends upon the sales person, a bit like the old PC World. According to their price list, the R8 should be £78.01 cheaper than a R9 - what is Leica thinking? It would have to be a few hundred squid cheaper for anyone to buy it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 11, 2006 Share #12 Posted October 11, 2006 Is the R8 still on Leica's Price List? It must be 4 years or more since they stopped making them - I'd have sold them at cost by now, if that were me, just to avoid the embarrassment.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted October 11, 2006 Share #13 Posted October 11, 2006 I suspect that new but "remaindered" R8s may well have been sold with a substantial discount - perhaps under the guise of "ex-demo" (though with full warranty). I also suspect that the recent stock reduction exercise following the last financial crisis may have employed the same device, even on current catalogue items. (Not too long ago I bought a current catalogue, discounted lens, described as "ex-dem", that had plainly not been out of its polythene wrapper in its case, and which was in my opinion absolutely mint. Might be totally mistaken of course.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted October 11, 2006 Share #14 Posted October 11, 2006 Next time my plane lands I want it to do so because the pilot did it, not because he uses radar or some new fangled navigation aid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hm1912 Posted October 11, 2006 Share #15 Posted October 11, 2006 Rob, that's amusing, and a good joke, but a completely pointless analogy. That's interesting that R8s are priced so close to the R9. At those prices, they'll never get rid of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 11, 2006 Share #16 Posted October 11, 2006 Next time my plane lands I want it to do so because the pilot did it, not because he uses radar or some new fangled navigation aid. Years ago, I landed at Heathrow on an internal flight from Manchester. It was very, very foggy. The pilot came over the intercom, doing his "Welcome to Heathrow" speach. He went on to thank Mr Boeing, for his automatic landing systems and software, and "confessed" that neither the pilot nor his Nr 1 had anything to do with the landing of the plane. I wasn't fazed by this at all. Don't dismiss a bit of chippery, just through predjudice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted October 12, 2006 Share #17 Posted October 12, 2006 Uh? I set my shutter speed and my aperture after licking my finger and hanging it up in the breeze. I would hate some silicon chip to set exposure for me. R9 is fully manual isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted October 12, 2006 Share #18 Posted October 12, 2006 I have both the R8/9 and find them excellent cameras. The dearest Leica that I ever purchased before the R9 was the M7, and frankly it's the least most used. Would I ever buy another M, I don't think so. It's a great camera for low light, but it's outclassed by my R cameras. In my opinion the M7 is not as well made as the R8/9, loading film is slow, 3 pairs of hands is required, Compared to the R line, It takes me about 5 seconds to load a new roll into R8/9. Removing a Film roll from R cameras no problems unlike M7. I can focus my R'rrrssssss much quicker. Okay I can rattle all day about the M7, but would I part with it.....No As I said, I now use it for Low light, and static shots where I have planty of time to fondle it. But since 1973 most of my shots have been with the Rrrrrssss, and I see no reason to change it. Score...5- R bodies and 9 Lenses. ............1-M body with one 35mm f2 asph. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 12, 2006 Share #19 Posted October 12, 2006 Hi Ken, I find loading an M faster than loading an R - provided I'm using the M with a strap. Just flip the camera upside down while wearing the strap - only 2 hands are needed :-) I have to say I also find focussing the M the easiest in low light. I guess this is a personnal preference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted October 12, 2006 Share #20 Posted October 12, 2006 When picking up my M after using the R, I find forgetting to focus is the second biggest problem. (All the viewfinder is in focus all of the time...) The biggest problem, though, when using a real M, is remembering to transfer the reading that you have taken on the external meter to the camera... Doh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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