wide.angle Posted October 7, 2006 Share #1 Posted October 7, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am hoping for some spirited, and well-reasoned viewpoints on what is street photography and/or the "decisive moment." I am hoping this will be a great forum for honest, respectful debate. (being a leica forum ) First are the two synonymous? Second, do the images in "The Decisive Moment" by Henri Cartier Bresson (HCB) reflect either/both? http://e-photobooks.com/cartier-bresson/decisive-moment.html I am specifically interested in certain images in the book including man in cafe, man eating, and those numbered 2, 5, 31, 42, 43, 50, 54-56, 58, 61, 62, ... (I think you'll get the idea). Keeping in mind, they are in this book, "The Decisive Moment", can they legitimately be as such. Third, if these do, does my image of the girl lost in thought drinking coffee, fit the category at all? An explanation and comparison/contrast to HCB's images above, not just a yes/no are appreciated. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/6793-decisive-moment-street-photography/?do=findComment&comment=66141'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 7, 2006 Posted October 7, 2006 Hi wide.angle, Take a look here Decisive Moment / Street Photography. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted October 7, 2006 Share #2 Posted October 7, 2006 Henri would've probably asked you: What does your picture say, mate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide.angle Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted October 7, 2006 Fair enough, I do have a view of its meaning: even people professing super powers (logo) is vulnerable to exhaustion, and rely on the same thing to rebound that mere mortals do -- caffeine from coffee. That's what led me to make the image, so I focused on the elements that told that story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide.angle Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share #4 Posted October 7, 2006 What did Henri's picture above say? Let's go for some analysis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjr Posted October 7, 2006 Share #5 Posted October 7, 2006 As long is says something to the photographer himself does it matter what others think or say ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2006 Share #6 Posted October 7, 2006 ...I do have a view of its meaning: even people professing super powers (logo) is vulnerable to exhaustion... Your subject looks more like a tired student after a fancy party i feel, which she probably was wasn't she? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2006 Share #7 Posted October 7, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Don't get me wrong, the only decisive moments i'm able to catch are things like that which hardly say anything i'm afraid. Far from HCB isn't it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gverdon Posted October 7, 2006 Share #8 Posted October 7, 2006 What I understood from HCB's "decisive moment" is the following: A picture which captures a moment telling the whole story. Gérald Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
square_one Posted October 7, 2006 Share #9 Posted October 7, 2006 Scott - You ask for comments on your far-away SuperGirl so here goes: Her essence is well-shown, but I suspect HCB (color versus mono aside) would have pulled in the stage-setting coffee shop environment to the left and thrown-out the right hand storage shelves, which don't relate. He'd have our pensive princess less centered, off right-side and gazing out of the image away from her surroundings, where she would more fit her moment, your missed decisive moment. So easy for me to say though, not there, not any kind of photographic beacon. What do you think? Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted October 7, 2006 Share #10 Posted October 7, 2006 The decisive moment is also determined by a general notion of the prevailing current dominant culture, which by the way is always is not a set, rather fixed moment in time. In other words, it's VERY subjective to say the least. Thanks for the mind stimulating thoughts. Ed. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide.angle Posted October 8, 2006 Author Share #11 Posted October 8, 2006 lct, Not a student, but tired yes. bruce, i'm not claiming I got the shot perfectly, as it has some flare in it, yes the subject is centered (on the centered point, i only had a couple of seconds to get this together before she noticed and if i shifted her to the right to get the cafe, then she would be looking out of the frame and if i backed up, the window between her and i would have caused bad reflections. so i did best i could here.) that aside... I had hoped this might go a little differently, I hadn't meant my picture to be the only thing commented on, nor the focus. But what is street photography, what is decisive moment, and are they the same? Then, were HCB's images in "decisive moment" including the ones I identified a decisive moment and street photography? If so, why (for each question)? e.g., what is the decisive moment in the man in the cafe above? Is that also street photography? Finally, if those of HCB's that i identified are in this category (the title of the book suggests they are), then is the girl in cafe above? how are they similar, different? what prompted this for me is that someone told me emphatically, and flat out that my image was certainly NOT a street shot. but could not articulate why not in light of the analysis above... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted October 8, 2006 Share #12 Posted October 8, 2006 There is some tension in this HCB shot: because of the man expression for instance. One wonders if he saw something, if he is thinking of something or he is just spending his whole day in the cafe looking at strangers through the window, a metaphor in his life. And because of the position of the hand on the walking stick, we also wonder if he will raise or if is just holding it. When it comes to composition, the picture is clearly "left to right" as are the man eyes oriented but no bottom to top nor the other way around. For an occidental, this means that the picture is about the future. And because the man is on the left, this is an "open" future. But this is tinted by the window separations, the 2 vertical lines that close the image somehow saying that the future is maybe not so open, a metaphor about the man age. I'm sorry but there is nothing like this is your picture. When I see it, I know that this is a girl lost in her thoughts but with no strong emotions. That her next action will be to sip some coffee probably or to put the cup down and there is no mystery in it. And the structure of the image is polluted by the guy behind and the superman sign. They attract the eyes of the reader but add no signification nor questioning. So yours is an ok picture but HCB was HCB and believe me, if his image was reframed like this, this is for a reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 8, 2006 Share #13 Posted October 8, 2006 For those interested in photo composition: http://photoinf.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
square_one Posted October 8, 2006 Share #14 Posted October 8, 2006 what prompted this (thread) for me is that someone told me emphatically, and flat out that my image was certainly NOT a street shot but could not articulate why not in light of the analysis above... Well Scott, what does that person know, what do I know, and really, why care? Decisive moments are simply arresting photographs by any person, out of any camera in any place, at the perfect moment. These rare accomplishments are not just the province of so-called roving "street" photographers - pocket snappers, MFers and ponderous 8x10 workers capture DM's too - in the backyard, the boardroom, the bus, the studio, the Grand Canyon, even in the coffee shop. My take only, and I'm calling in sick on the HCB homework - that is too subjective a subject!! Bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_meheut Posted October 8, 2006 Share #15 Posted October 8, 2006 what prompted this for me is that someone told me emphatically, and flat out that my image was certainly NOT a street shot. but could not articulate why not in light of the analysis above... No, your picture is a street shot and the problem is not in the category, it is in the quality. This is not a great shot but this is a nice shot because at least, you shoot someone from front, because you are trying to capture a moment and an atmosphere. You just need more work to become a master Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted October 8, 2006 Share #16 Posted October 8, 2006 Not a street shot. Travelling companion. Acquaintance, friend, wife, sister, mother? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sreidvt Posted October 8, 2006 Share #17 Posted October 8, 2006 Cartier Bresson defined the "decisive moment" quite clearly, at one time, as a moment in which all of the visual elements of a subject came together. It's not about action or peak of action, per se, but instead about the construction of the picture. I've been working on a series of articles about "street photography" recently and have been thinking about HCB again. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 8, 2006 Share #18 Posted October 8, 2006 Was more than composition in his mind, Sean. I seem to recall the definition that he gave himself of the 'decisive moment' but i don't remember my source sorry: "the simultaneous recognition, in a fraction of a second, of the significance of an event as well as the precise organization of forms which gives that event its proper expression." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest leica_mage Posted October 8, 2006 Share #19 Posted October 8, 2006 wide.angle and friends, For me, street excludes colour. Not that there can not be a 'decisive moment' captured in colour, but the snag is that it has to be a 'decisive moment' in motion as well as a 'decisive moment' in colour juxtaposition. I adore H.C.-B., but as far as living photographers go, one of the few who has truly seen and understood is Chris Weeks. This is his outlook, written as if it were being played on a harpsichord, but à la Landowska: Street Photography ... by +cweeks on deviantART . His other essays are equally inspired. Plus, the man has dispenses with the bourgeoisie horror of certain words. Chris is the real thing and I love him greatly for being who and what he is. You really should not omit to look at his work and read his essays. Leica should hang his portrait in Solms. Best, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 8, 2006 Share #20 Posted October 8, 2006 Well, firstly, Street Photography is a very generic term, but I know what I think is Street and what isn't, and I don't think it can be clearly defined by anyone as to exactly what it is. Street Photography certainly can be in colour, it's nonsense to say you must use B&W. It can be people shots and it can be inanimate objects. Also, I don't think you can take a photo of a friend in a cafe and class that as Street. It isn't about managing the shot or working in a comfort zone (sorry, I'm assuming that you know the girl in the shot). That just becomes another photo of a friend/partner. Leaving that aside what works for me in HCB's shot is that the man is sitting alone, there is no evidence of anyone else in the shot, no people, no coffee cups or ashtrays. He is in total isolation both physically and, to me, in his thoughts. The image makes me wonder about him, has he just arrived or is he just leaving? He may have spent a couple of hours in the cafe having sipped a coffee, now the place is empty, the tables are clear and the staff want to close, but still he lingers.... In the photo of the girl, I just see a girl drinking coffee. There's nothing wrong with the image and the colour works with the T shirt. I'm sure the subject would be pleased with such a candid shot, but it doesn't tell a story or evoke my thoughts in the was the first image does. This is a website of street photography - some of the photographers run workshops/discussions on the subject too; iN-PUBLiC | The home of street photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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