Guest DuquesneG Posted September 22, 2008 Share #121 Posted September 22, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) My thoughts: Kudos to Leica if the S2 lets them carve out a piece of another niche for themselves. As several people said before, mainstream competitiveness with Canon and Nikon would require far more resources than Leica can muster. OTOH for my own selfish desires, rather than spend those resources gambling on a larger-than-FF 37-megapixel SLR that requires a new set of lenses with larger image circle, I would have (to repeat, selfishly) liked it better if they had split the difference and come out with 18.5-megapixel Full Frame M9 and R10 bodies that would unquestionably sell to an established customer base with existing lenses. The thing is, outside of this forum where Leica-lovers congregate, I don't know what size market exists for the S2...particularly since the M8 IR-filter/SDS/lockups/months-long-service turnaround, et al debacle played out big-time on the 'net and (again, outside of this forum) the name Leica is, shall we say, not exactly synonymous with reliability. Plus, if the S2 ends up selling mainly to "the usual suspects" I shudder to think of what that will do to the cost of having a filling done. sorry about that last one, I was only kidding Bests, Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 22, 2008 Posted September 22, 2008 Hi Guest DuquesneG, Take a look here Digital Reflex S2 - please post all thoughts here.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #122 Posted September 22, 2008 (about the high-end Canons and Nikons) I don't think that's the target market. I think that this camera is placed squarely where it could steal away the former MF sales which have in recent years gone to cameras like the 1Ds2 and 1Ds3. This camera has exactly the same advantages which Canon has used over the Hasselblads, ie. smaller, lighter, easier to carry around, etc. Actually, this camera is also going to be dead-on for all the people who were exited about the Mamiya ZD until they saw the output. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #123 Posted September 22, 2008 There is no way it would not be good in the corners, one thing Leica does not 1/2-ass is optics. But the ergos on the camera...whew, lets just say I hope there is a nice vertical grip. I think you missed the lens name he was talking about: Summarit-M! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #124 Posted September 22, 2008 It's obviously aimed at the fashion photo industry, whether that be inside a studio, or out. Whether it be clothes or cars...... They've pitched it beyond the capability of the Canon and Nikon glass, so the quality approaches Hasselblad, but being faster than a Canon, it will leave the Hasselblad for dead. However, it won't mate well with an iMac. Rolo I think that it is rather the opposite: the S2 will have quality (and resolution) exceeding the Canon, at a speed faster than the Hasselblad. They claim twice Hasselblad speed, not twice Canon, ie. about 1-2 fps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Mitchum Posted September 22, 2008 Share #125 Posted September 22, 2008 Fear not, just wait. Leica is going to serve everyone: "'We saw an opportunity,' Stefan Daniel continues. 'There was a very small window to get into the [high-end] DSLR market. We are first going to focus on the pro market before dropping the technology to other lower-priced DSLRs. Eventually we will launch models for amateurs and other pros. We've developed a technology platform and we will split it to the other systems. This is the logical step. This is a pro camera, but of course we will have something for everyone else. This is the commercialisation of what photographers are and have been looking for" - [ quoted from BJP online] Amen. So the S2 will be out next summer and then after focusing on that market for a while the technology will trickle down to other DSLRs. Sounds like we are going to have a long wait. R10 in 2011? 2012? Swell. Hopefully there will be a full frame M9 by then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 22, 2008 Share #126 Posted September 22, 2008 I think you missed the lens name he was talking about: Summarit-M! Obviously, the Summarit-M and the Summarit-S are completely different lenses. Not everything "Leica" revolves round the M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted September 22, 2008 Share #127 Posted September 22, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) They were referring to Auto Focus speed being quicker than the Hasselblad's. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 22, 2008 Share #128 Posted September 22, 2008 Agree with Carsten, this camera appears to be aimed directly at the studio/fashion/advertising photographer some of whom have been using the Canon thingy and others various MF options. This would look to offer the versatility of the usual SLR but with the better IQ of the MF backs and with Leica glass and all that means. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #129 Posted September 22, 2008 On the other hand, I see too many systems for a company so small like Leica: M, R, S, M4/3... How they will handle this? How they will keep alive the R system? They will presumably drop the 4/3 systems. M, R, and S seems doable. The S system is complete for now, with 9 lenses. The R system will probably see some kind of new R10 in 2009, with a refresh of all the lenses, adding autofocus, but not changing the optical formula in most cases. The old manual focus R lenses will continue to work as they do today. M just needs an M9, which will come in 2010. You read it here first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted September 22, 2008 Share #130 Posted September 22, 2008 In another forum it was noted that the S2 will be sold exclusively through Phase dealers. What this probably means is Phase will also do the service too. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted September 22, 2008 Share #131 Posted September 22, 2008 My thoughts: Kudos to Leica if the S2 lets them carve out a piece of another niche for themselves. As several people said before, mainstream competitiveness with Canon and Nikon would require far more resources than Leica can muster. OTOH for my own selfish desires, rather than spend those resources gambling on a larger-than-FF 37-megapixel SLR that requires a new set of lenses with larger image circle, I would have (to repeat, selfishly) liked it better if they had split the difference and come out with 18.5-megapixel Full Frame M9 and R10 bodies that would unquestionably sell to an established customer base with existing lenses. The thing is, outside of this forum where Leica-lovers congregate, I don't know what size market exists for the S2...particularly since the M8 IR-filter/SDS/lockups/months-long-service turnaround, et al debacle played out big-time on the 'net and (again, outside of this forum) the name Leica is, shall we say, not exactly synonymous with reliability. Plus, if the S2 ends up selling mainly to "the usual suspects" I shudder to think of what that will do to the cost of having a filling done. sorry about that last one, I was only kidding Bests, Gordon I think the Phase One relationship solves the maintanance issues since all sales will be via their channels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUF Admin Posted September 22, 2008 Share #132 Posted September 22, 2008 Here are the official images and the press release: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/photokina-live-ticker/64267-leica-s2-images-more-details.html Best regards from Bonn Andreas PS: just back from the Cologne event... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 22, 2008 Share #133 Posted September 22, 2008 Why should that be Rob? Show me where it says that the S2 is only available through Phase One dealers (I thought that was a software house, not a hardware vendor.. maybe I'm mistaken) What IS a "Phase dealer" anyway? Is this a Leica, or a Phase camera? All I have read points to Phase offering software support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted September 22, 2008 Share #134 Posted September 22, 2008 I think that it is rather the opposite: the S2 will have quality (and resolution) exceeding the Canon, at a speed faster than the Hasselblad. They claim twice Hasselblad speed, not twice Canon, ie. about 1-2 fps. you could also say slower than a Canon and less resolution than a Hassy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #135 Posted September 22, 2008 And they sealed the body. Holy cow, I can't believe they did that. It seems like they have learned their lesson here. I suspect that future Ms and Rs will also be sealed. People use their cameras in all kinds of weather! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted September 22, 2008 Share #136 Posted September 22, 2008 What IS a "Phase dealer" anyway?I guess a dealer of this stuff: Phase One - Digital Backs - Digital RAW Software - Capture One also see this (apologies if this was posted earlier): Phase One Dealer of the Year, Capture Integration Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted September 22, 2008 Share #137 Posted September 22, 2008 Overall, quite impressive. My only concern is that this will take a tremendous amount of capital in a small company with relatively limited means, aside from Herr Kaufmann's deep pockets. How will it impact the M-line? And aside from the Leica-Panasonic hybrids, where is Leica going with prices? The M system, given the current global economy, has some pretty stratospheric prices already. I know with kids in college and declining purchasing power due to the stupidities of our economic system here in the US, I can barely manage the M8 and a handful of used or off-brand lenses. It often seems that Leica is racing headlong toward higher and higher prices for a variety of reasons, and one must wonder how it will affect people who want to stick with Leica but who can't keep up with the pricing. We'll see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #138 Posted September 22, 2008 My thoughts: Kudos to Leica if the S2 lets them carve out a piece of another niche for themselves. ... outside of this forum where Leica-lovers congregate, I don't know what size market exists for the S2. They are amortizing the development cost of this camera by using the technology in other cameras in the future, so they just have to sell enough to make back some of their money, not all. Anyway, Leica cameras are very stable over time, so when the S3 comes out, the S2 will sell second-hand for probably at least 75% of its initial cost, dropping the effective cost of the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #139 Posted September 22, 2008 They were referring to Auto Focus speed being quicker than the Hasselblad's. Robert The article I saw was talking about the image processing. This was the BJP article, I think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 22, 2008 Share #140 Posted September 22, 2008 In another forum it was noted that the S2 will be sold exclusively through Phase dealers. What this probably means is Phase will also do the service too. Robert Hmm, I will believe this when Leica announces it. The Leica dealers would be extremely miffed! I am going to mine tomorrow, so I will ask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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