Chandra Posted September 19, 2008 Share #1 Posted September 19, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Greetings, Have been going through discussions here and elsewhere on the merits/demerits of the New Noctilux announced.I think most leica users would like to have this lens in their kit but for the astronomical price.I believe one of the reasons for such a high price is the "econmies of scale"(or the lack of it,in this case)!Is there a number at which Leica could halve the price given a commitment of numbers from us? Would like to know your views please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 Hi Chandra, Take a look here Noctilux prices. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted September 19, 2008 Share #2 Posted September 19, 2008 These lenses are hand made by extremely skilled people, in Germany, from extremely expensive materials It's a bit like saying that Bugatti could halve the price of a Veyron if enough people said that they would buy one at only $1m. They couldn't, and wouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 19, 2008 Share #3 Posted September 19, 2008 Sub-micron mechanical tolerances, mainly hand-made, exceedingly expensive glass, how could they be cheaper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted September 19, 2008 Share #4 Posted September 19, 2008 €7300 euro worth of special glass and leica knowhow gives you the new Noctilux (quality unknown) €4000 euro will buy you a good copy of the focus shift prone older f:/1 Noctilux €2600 will buy you the superb Summilux 1.4. At this stage these prices have gone way way beyond what I consider reasonable. I'd rather keep my €4700 'cos I'll never see that level of difference or care about the speed difference to drop €7300 on a 50mm lens. YMMV:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted September 19, 2008 Share #5 Posted September 19, 2008 I guess that you would get a pretty much decent discount if you would buy in a bundle of lets say a thousand or so. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 19, 2008 Share #6 Posted September 19, 2008 But you'd have to wait 10 years to have them delivered Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted September 19, 2008 Share #7 Posted September 19, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just wanted to let you all know that I have just made my very first post on the Aston Martin Owner's Forum. I have pointed out to anyone that will read it that the DBS is far too expensive, and if they dropped the price they could sell many more of them. I have never driven one, but I have always wanted to becuse I just know it would make my journey to and from work and to the garden centre and municipal dump at the weekends so much better. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 19, 2008 Share #8 Posted September 19, 2008 I just wanted to let you all know that I have just made my very first post on the Aston Martin Owner's Forum. I have pointed out to anyone that will read it that the DBS is far too expensive, and if they dropped the price they could sell many more of them. I hope you also mentioned that Ford produce cars with many more features. Where is the cup holder in a DBS for example? Not only that, but the Ford Mondeo has far more legroom in the back, and the insurance is _far_ less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 19, 2008 Share #9 Posted September 19, 2008 Perhaps the OP should buy the Canon version of this lens? Oh, hang on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedalus Posted September 19, 2008 Share #10 Posted September 19, 2008 I hope you also mentioned that Ford produce cars with many more features. Where is the cup holder in a DBS for example? Not only that, but the Ford Mondeo has far more legroom in the back, and the insurance is _far_ less. it ain't a ford no mo'. but point taken... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 19, 2008 Share #11 Posted September 19, 2008 I just wanted to let you all know that I have just made my very first post on the Aston Martin Owner's Forum. I have pointed out to anyone that will read it that the DBS is far too expensive, and if they dropped the price they could sell many more of them. I have never driven one, but I have always wanted to becuse I just know it would make my journey to and from work and to the garden centre and municipal dump at the weekends so much better. Regards, Bill Indeed Bill but I also wonder why Aston Martin and the other 'luxury' brands don't do more for younger drivers. When I was learning to drive I could only afford an old Rover. Surely Aston Martin can see that if they offered a budget car to get new drivers into their marque it would help secure their future? Of maybe some sort of long term low interest finance plan could work. They can't survive by just targetting the older financially well off customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 20, 2008 Share #12 Posted September 20, 2008 The last CEO of Leica but 3, Hans-Peter Cohn(?) was quoted once as saying "It really doesn't matter what we build at Leica, it is going to be expensive. Therefore the only way we can justify our prices is to make the products the best in the world." It is probably possible to take issue with both his premise and his conclusion, but that is how Leica sees itself. A company (in the old-fashioned sense of a like-minded group) of craftsmen (and women) who are not in business to make cameras efficiently and inexpensively, but to use their fingers, eyes and brains to handfashion blank metal and glass into exquisite objects (that just coincidentally can take photographs and perhaps provide a livelihood). If your goal is simply to get a little white ball into a cup 300 meters away, you buy a laser targeting device and hydrogen-powered launcher from United Technologies' Weapons Division and bingo - a hole in one every time. If your goal, on the other hand, is to be a superb golfer, you eschew the fancy, efficient, high-tech equipment and use a plain old persimmon stick - plus skill, knowledge, and ability to second guess the wind. You don't score as many holes in one - but those you DO score were based on your individual qualities, and not your ability to push a button or operate a string of robots. Rodney Dangerfield had the high-tech golf bag with all the gizmos - Tiger Woods uses the simple stick. Who's the better golfer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alifie Posted September 20, 2008 Share #13 Posted September 20, 2008 Does this mean my Noctilux (f1 latest) is worth more or less now? When I got it secondhand I could justify the cost, now it is worth too much to use! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 20, 2008 Share #14 Posted September 20, 2008 Does this mean my Noctilux (f1 latest) is worth more or less now? When I got it secondhand I could justify the cost, now it is worth too much to use! Trust me : MUCH MUCH LESS... and EVEN LESS as time goes on... be quick to send it to me accepting my 100 US$... none shall give you more next months... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alifie Posted September 20, 2008 Share #15 Posted September 20, 2008 Oh goody, I can use it now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominic Posted September 20, 2008 Share #16 Posted September 20, 2008 The last CEO of Leica but 3, Hans-Peter Cohn(?) was quoted once as saying "It really doesn't matter what we build at Leica, it is going to be expensive. Therefore the only way we can justify our prices is to make the products the best in the world." It is probably possible to take issue with both his premise and his conclusion, but that is how Leica sees itself. A company (in the old-fashioned sense of a like-minded group) of craftsmen (and women) who are not in business to make cameras efficiently and inexpensively, but to use their fingers, eyes and brains to handfashion blank metal and glass into exquisite objects (that just coincidentally can take photographs and perhaps provide a livelihood). If your goal is simply to get a little white ball into a cup 300 meters away, you buy a laser targeting device and hydrogen-powered launcher from United Technologies' Weapons Division and bingo - a hole in one every time. If your goal, on the other hand, is to be a superb golfer, you eschew the fancy, efficient, high-tech equipment and use a plain old persimmon stick - plus skill, knowledge, and ability to second guess the wind. You don't score as many holes in one - but those you DO score were based on your individual qualities, and not your ability to push a button or operate a string of robots. Rodney Dangerfield had the high-tech golf bag with all the gizmos - Tiger Woods uses the simple stick. Who's the better golfer? """"""""""" What you wrote is spot on !!! I enjoyed a lot! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 20, 2008 Share #17 Posted September 20, 2008 Well, I bemoaned the loss of some of the "trophy" lenses, especially the MATE and the 75mm Summilux, so I can hardly complain that Leica have introduced three new lenses right at the top of the tree. Aside from the new Noctilux, the others more or less fit into the pattern that a doubling of speed doubles the cost of a lens. With the new Noctilux, it's somewhere between 3 and 4 times. Leica could do well to explain just how difficult all this is to do; I've no doubt the levels of precision they achieve are breathtaking but, as always, I just wish the M8(.2) was up to focussing with them. Perhaps the Nocti comes with a voucher to return your camera to set up the focussing... I'm looking forward to trying them out at Photokina, though of course my camera will not recognise the new 6 bit code - I need to check the new firmware to see if they are in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted September 20, 2008 Share #18 Posted September 20, 2008 ...hey, Chandra, I hear what you're saying, but I fear for your point of view. Leica products are arguably (justifiably?) pricey, but that notwithstanding, you will get little support from the Bugatti bunch here. See, we prefer our Leica products to be jaw-droppingly expensive. Makes us feel kinda, special, different. Some even refer to this as "value". Is it rational? That's for you to decide. Oh, and lest I forget my manners and come across as sniffy, welcome to the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darkstar2004 Posted September 20, 2008 Share #19 Posted September 20, 2008 €7300 euro worth of special glass and leica knowhow gives you the new Noctilux (quality unknown)€4000 euro will buy you a good copy of the focus shift prone older f:/1 Noctilux €2600 will buy you the superb Summilux 1.4. At this stage these prices have gone way way beyond what I consider reasonable. I'd rather keep my €4700 'cos I'll never see that level of difference or care about the speed difference to drop €7300 on a 50mm lens. YMMV:) $10,500 American (by today's exchange rate) for the new Noctilux makes me glad to have the "old" one I have. I would have to win the lottery to see my way clear to spending that kind of cash for a lens. Still, I am very interested to see the results that it will produce, both in B&W and E6. I wonder if it will inspire old version Noctilux owners to dump their old Noctiluxes and upgrade, or if it will cause the older version to be even more highly sought after? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted September 20, 2008 Share #20 Posted September 20, 2008 Back to the original question, if Leica were able to scale up the production to such a number of lenses that they could start using 'mass production' equipment than that would reduce the price of some of the Noctilux components. However I have this creeping feeling that some of the critical parts do not lend themselves to mass production & that fine tuning and manual intervention is required. If it was possible to make a high speed prime for a reasonable price it would have been done a long time ago (by Nikon, Olympus etc.). Obviously the price also contains a percentage for the importer, camera shop owner etc. and I do not think that they would be too happy to see their margins evaporate. Finally I expect that Leica is perfectly happy to roll out a small number of Noctiluxes at a premium price and then start to lower the price (slightly) when the demand starts to dwindle. It is not a normal lens it is an icon. It took them nearly 40 years of solid thinking to design something better than the previous formula. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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