andybarton Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share #121 Posted September 27, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) "I was wondering how long it would take you to spot that, Wilson" The DK Eyewitness Travel Guide ALSO has it opening at 11:00am Bring your own Thermos if you want a coffee before then (I blame the OP for a terrible mistake... time of meeting corrected to 11 in the first post) So, that's an extra half hour in bed, or an extra half hour recceing to be done for the best places in town to get that winning shot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 27, 2008 Posted September 27, 2008 Hi andybarton, Take a look here Krakow - One Challenge 11 October 2008 details. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erl Posted September 27, 2008 Share #122 Posted September 27, 2008 More like an extra 1/2hr for a nervous wee!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 27, 2008 Share #123 Posted September 27, 2008 That's fine, I'm not a morning person! The website is still down, I can call them but if 11 is good for everyone lets stick with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StS Posted September 27, 2008 Share #124 Posted September 27, 2008 Fine with me - my hotel appears to be just round two corners from the meeting point, I can raise my caffeine level to working level at the hotel breakfast Some decisions in life are really difficult - still haven't decided about film or digital - I just bought an M6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 27, 2008 Share #125 Posted September 27, 2008 Once you've made that decision then its which film, B&W or colour, which lens...........that's the hard part! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 27, 2008 Share #126 Posted September 27, 2008 I've decided on camera and lens, the only issue is what ISO to set the camera to <grin>. I hope all the M8 users will remember to switch off auto ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 28, 2008 Share #127 Posted September 28, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've decided on camera and lens, the only issue is what ISO to set the camera to <grin>. I hope all the M8 users will remember to switch off auto ISO. On my M8, 'Auto iso' is selectable as one choice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share #128 Posted September 28, 2008 I hope you're not going to be playing by "Aussie Rules", Erl... For the avoidance of doubt... I vote that Auto ISO, in ANY camera, is against the spirit of the competition. Maybe Bill should be the final judge in this matter. It's his game, after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 28, 2008 Share #129 Posted September 28, 2008 If you can only use one roll of film, then you should only be able to use one ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share #130 Posted September 28, 2008 Exactly. Unless you push some of the film and then process the part-rolls differently. Which seems like a lot of bother, to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted September 28, 2008 Share #131 Posted September 28, 2008 A thousand croaks Gentlemen, but if I may play the devil's advocate, the setting of ISO, or the pushing of a roll of flim because you know there's a great shot in amongst it somewhere, is to me a legitimate action. One lens, one camera, one roll of flim seems reasonable but there's no restriction to dodging, burning, or other legitimate techniques that are an expression of the skill and creative control of the photographer. Lenses can be adjusted for focus, f-stops can be set and re-set and exposure can be changed at will, so to me setting of ISO in cameras capable of doing so is just an expression of the photographers's skill in changing exposure, just as pushig a roll, part roll, or dodging and burnig is a legitimate act. There's also a possibility that at some point in the future, someone will want to compete who has a camera where an auto iso function cannot be overridden (perhaps in the C-Lux or D-Lux style) and be discouraged from taking part because of this. Consequently I would vote for variable ISO being allowed, as legitimate, as in reality all photographers have access to this technique, whether it is by changing the meter setting, dodging, burning or Auto ISO, regardless of the type of camera in use. That being said, as Andy has posted above, I agree that it is Bill's call to give guidance as how to proceed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share #132 Posted September 28, 2008 Good points Robert The C41 b&w films can be pushed all over place at ease. I have been persuaded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 28, 2008 Share #133 Posted September 28, 2008 Well, in that case you may as well say that people using digital can use any ISO they feel like. After all, the auto ISO is just automatically selecting a different ISO when the light gets poorer or better. Why allow the camera to do it, but not the photographer? If it's wrong for the photographer to choose - which it is, why should it be ok for the camera to do so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd. Posted September 28, 2008 Share #134 Posted September 28, 2008 we will be doing the challenge in two hours daytime, not around the clock. will there be so much change in lighting that it would be impossible to go on without changing iso? if you want to, no problem with me, but before reading the stuff above i didn't even think about the necessity of changing film or iso. i just thought the challenge was about 'keeping it simple' - one body, one lens, one film, two hours. -tim- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share #135 Posted September 28, 2008 I knew that Leica should never have offered this as an improvement! I have been considering this further. "KISS" is what it should be about, as Tim has reminded us. I don't see what is wrong with choosing an ISO and sticking to it, and most people there will not have the luxury of changing. So, I'd rather keep a level playing field. If there are ever Leica cameras which only offer this as a setting, then the rules will have to be reconsidered at that time, IMHO. Dodging and burning isn't the same a a wholesale ISO change, really. So, I am being a bit of an old woman and I have changed my mind again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 28, 2008 Share #136 Posted September 28, 2008 we will be doing the challenge in two hours daytime, not around the clock. will there be so much change in lighting that it would be impossible to go on without changing iso? If you go indoors, possibly yes <grin> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted September 28, 2008 Share #137 Posted September 28, 2008 Well, in that case you may as well say that people using digital can use any ISO they feel like. After all, the auto ISO is just automatically selecting a different ISO when the light gets poorer or better. Why allow the camera to do it, but not the photographer? If it's wrong for the photographer to choose - which it is, why should it be ok for the camera to do so? What I'm saying is that the control of the ISO is a legitimate creative act, in the same way that changing the f-stop is a creative act. I can see no reason why a skilled photographer should not manipulate the ISO (which in any case happens to a subtle extent during the printing of an image anyway - it gets slightly longer or shorter time in the developer to produce a pleasing result) - any more than a photpgrapher should adjust the f-stop to control exposure - all cameras can be adjusted in this way, regardless if some automation occurs or not - for instance it is legitimate to take part but with the camera set to 'A' for auto exposure, so why not allow auto ISO, or for that matter manual adjustment of the ISO setting (?) Ps. I'm not sure why it's wrong for the photographer to choose - that's what we do.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 29, 2008 Share #138 Posted September 29, 2008 FWIW my take on this. If I recall correctly I remember having to state which film AND speed we were using in previous challenges. The first one in London was mostly all shot with film but there were a couple of Digilux 3 users. I think the fundamental point is the restriction of camera body/lens/film or ISO. Choosing your parameters and having to stick to them, within reason. Thats why its OK to use a zoom but you have to stick to one focal length. Yes you can tweak the shot in the darkroom or on PS but choosing say FP4 or ISO 160 and then halfway through deciding that 1600 willl give you the shot you want isn't in the spirit of the thing. Just my opinion. I'm happy for Bill to make the final decision on this too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 29, 2008 Share #139 Posted September 29, 2008 O.K. Here comes the "Devil's Advocate". (Just for fun, mind you ) If 'one' lock's in the iso setting, to comply with rules, what is wrong with dialling in, -1.0 exp. comp. to push the iso, for either film or digital, up a stop? An otherwise totally legitimate technique that probably has been employed by past competitors without even thinking about the conotations. Geesh! Don't you hate pedants? (Ducks for cover, and thinks of another question). Oh, yes. What about colour V's B&W for digital shooters? Does that parameter have to be locked in as well? This event needs to get started before I think of anything else. Edit: As you can see, "Aussie Rules" is just "Rafferties Rules " rehashed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 29, 2008 Share #140 Posted September 29, 2008 Erl, Colour to B&W conversions are allowed - OK If I choose to shoot B&W film I only have one option but if I shoot colour neg then I can still choose to print an image in B&W. My devil would advocate that exposure compensation is OK, yes the net result might be the same but one is still working from a fixed starting point. If I shoot 'sunny 16' then I'm relying on there being at least +/- a stop or so latitude. Anyway isn't it Aussie (No) Rules ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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