Choosing between Digilux 2 and D Lux 3

[LC07]

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Hi !

First post in this forum, hopefully they'll be more to come.

 

My previous point and shoot has had a good run with me until a rather unfortunate incident in which the said camera now has the fatal "lens error".

 

So, I need a new camera. I've narrowed it down to Digilux 2 and D Lux 3.

 

My questions are:

I normally shoot between ISO 50-80. Both Leica aforementioned have ISO settings of 100 and above. I don't normally shoot in high ISO settings so I'm not too bothered about how high it can go. I'm more concerned with whether the ISO 100 would be dramatically noisier?

 

Admittedly, I don't have the steadiest of hands. Would the lack of image stabilization in Digilux 2 cause perpetual shots of shaky images?

 

Also, would it be worth my while to get a discontinued camera (Digilux 2) or would I be better off adding $100-$200 more to get the newer D Lux 3?

 

I look to users of this forum for their infinite wisdom in this subject matter.

 

Thanks in advance!

[richam]

Also, would it be worth my while to get a discontinued camera (Digilux 2) or would I be better off adding $100-$200 more to get the newer D Lux 3?

Thanks in advance!

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Are you sure you're talking about the Digilux 2? It's a full sized camera, and I note that it's still selling used for around $1000, where a new D-lux 3 goes for around $600. The two really don't compare. Do you mean the D-lux 2?

[LC07]

Yes, it's Digilux 2.

Sorry, I was looking around on eBay. Most digilux 2 I see floating on eBay are used but in excellent condition (as they always are) according to the sellers, hence the lower price.

I saw some that ended for $700-$800.

 

Also note that I'm in Australia, so if I were to get the D-lux 3, it'll be from an Australian seller so the higher price. (They retail for AUD$1100 here in Australia)

[richam]

Sorry to cause you the extra work, but there is quite often confusion on these model names. I'll refer to the Digilux 2 as D2 for simplicity sake.

 

I own both. They are quite different. The D2 is larger, bulkier, and not really a point and shoot. The Dlux-3 offers shirt pocket size, raw capture, variable aspect ratio, and some other nice things. The D2 has a tilt flash, eye level electronic finder, and large camera handling. The list of differences is quite long, so you can get more info from the spec sheets. Regarding your questions:

 

The lowest ISO settings are the optimal and determined by the nature and design of the sensor and camera. If you could shoot at a lower ISO, there would be no noise improvement. The D-lux 3 can be set to much higher ISO, but the noise is really crappy at the higher settings.

 

My experience is that image stabilization is over-rated as a practical feature. I've taken sharp 1/8 second exposures with the D2 by bracing the camera at eye level, locking my arms to my chest, and releasing the shutter using the 2 second self-timer. I've never been able to do quite as well with the D-lux 3 even with image stabilization active. I'm sure others have had the opposite experience. And, like you, my hands are not all that steady anymore. I would not rate this feature high on my comparison list.

 

The discontinued Digilux 2 definitely has it's risks. First of all, early models were prone to sensor failure. I've had mine replaced by Leica under the extended warranty. You need to check if the camera has ever had a replacement sensor; if so you're better off. I also understand the battery is being discontinued. We'll be dependent on third party battery suppliers soon.

 

If you want to check some examples, I've posted Rapeseed Fields (except the closeup) and Oktoberfest with the D2 and Chicago Architecture and Cruises with the D-Lux 3.

[Overgaard]

The D-lux 3 is a good camera in the sense that one can easily carry it, why one tend to have it around all the time.

 

There's no viewfinder why you use the screen. My experience with that is that it lacks stabilization because it doesn't rest against the face.

 

The Digilux 2 is a classic with a great end light strong lens (f/2.0) and that camera operates best at 100 ISO (noise starts at 200 ISO and is too strong at 400 ISO).

 

It's light (compared to any same-size dSLR) but not small (compared to the D-Lux 3).

 

I would say the Digilux 2 produces the best, without doubt, files of the two. It has a shape that allow one to rest it easily against the hands and the face. I often shoot the Digilux 2 as low as 1/4 and 1/8 (shooting in series of three, the movement from pressing the shutter in picture 1 is not present in picture 2 and 3).

 

I know you are in Australia but you can check also MEISTER CAMERA Berlin: Home who has some second-hand Digilux 2. As far as I recall they will deduct the German VAT when sending them out of Germany. But you may check that.

 

Also see my page about the Digilux 2 at leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Sites - Leica Digilux 2 sample photos and tests (as well as Panasonic DMC-LC1)

[spylaw4]

I note the bit about the battery - but it is essentially the same as the Digilux3/DMC-L1 battery (1400mAh vs. 1500mAh, same shape and contacts). However D2 owners may be advised to stock up on a couple of spares. I got a couple from 7dayshop way back and they were fine - think I"ll get a couple more.

 

I still have and use my D2 - 100 ISO +RAW for colour although it does do excellent jpegs. ISO 400 is quite useable for B&W IMO.

[elgenper]

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Hi !

First post in this forum, hopefully they'll be more to come.

 

My previous point and shoot has had a good run with me until a rather unfortunate incident in which the said camera now has the fatal "lens error".

 

So, I need a new camera. I've narrowed it down to Digilux 2 and D Lux 3.

 

My questions are:

I normally shoot between ISO 50-80. Both Leica aforementioned have ISO settings of 100 and above. I don't normally shoot in high ISO settings so I'm not too bothered about how high it can go. I'm more concerned with whether the ISO 100 would be dramatically noisier?

 

Admittedly, I don't have the steadiest of hands. Would the lack of image stabilization in Digilux 2 cause perpetual shots of shaky images?

 

Also, would it be worth my while to get a discontinued camera (Digilux 2) or would I be better off adding $100-$200 more to get the newer D Lux 3?

 

I look to users of this forum for their infinite wisdom in this subject matter.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

I have both. FWIW, whenever I don´t HAVE to put the camera in a pocket, I take the Digilux 2. For one, the controls are far better; you set your focal length & c even with the camera off, and it stays put. Second, there´s room for your fingers without forever pushing some button by mistake. Third, the lens is faster and better. The speed more than compensates for the lack of I.S., and it is of value with moving subjects as well (which I.S. isn´t). And despite the far lower pixel count, Digilux 2 images beat the Dlux 3 ones, even up to A3 prints. IQ-wise, I even prefer it to my D200 dSLR....

 

Digilux 2 drawbacks: very slow writing in RAW mode (but the jpeg´s are very good indeed), next-to-useless EVF, so you will use the screen with it. too. Also, if shooting jpeg´s, ISO 400 results aren´t too good (the RAW´s are OK). Also, there is the sensor failure issue (mine hasn´t failed yet; I feel like the sword of Damocles is hanging over me...).

[richam]

...However D2 owners may be advised to stock up on a couple of spares. I got a couple from 7dayshop way back and they were fine - think I"ll get a couple more...

 

There was another interesting forum thread on this subject. It appears these types of batteries have a short life whether used or not.

[LC07]

How much would it cost to get the CCD replaced?

I'm inching towards D2 but I'd hate to get it only to have it fail on me soon after.

 

Also, thanks for the link overgaardcom. I hope they've made a typo in their email to me as they quoted me 200 Euros for shipping!

[chouhsin]

Digilux 2 drawbacks: very slow writing in RAW mode (but the jpeg´s are very good indeed), next-to-useless EVF, so you will use the screen with it. too.

 

I've heard a lot of complaints about this EVF of D2. But strangely, I never used the screen to take photo. I found it much easier to concerntrate on my image in a VF... And it's not that "stable" holding a camera 30cm in front of my eyes. My Statics lessons told me that a triangle is always more steadier then a suspended beam.

 

 

Hsin

[elgenper]

I've heard a lot of complaints about this EVF of D2. But strangely, I never used the screen to take photo. I found it much easier to concerntrate on my image in a VF... And it's not that "stable" holding a camera 30cm in front of my eyes. My Statics lessons told me that a triangle is always more steadier then a suspended beam.

 

Hsin

 

Well, as they say, one man´s meat is another man´s poison.... I do use the EVF when the ambient light makes it impossible to see the screen, and then it does give me some idea of what I´m aiming at... Only, personally I far prefer the screen: it is like the ground glass of a view camera, only right side up... The VF isn´t worse than those on (pre-IIIg) screw mount Leicas, and these were state-of-the-art from 1925 to 1954, so evidently people can adjust to what´s available.

 

As for stability, I thought the same until I did some comparative tests. The trick is to "cradle" the camera in such a way that it can´t wiggle when you press the button. I´m left-eyed, so whenever using a regular viewfinder on a M Leica, the camera back balances on the tip of my nose instead of cradling beside it, and it´s not very stable. I get a higher rate of successful shots when NOT holding it to my face (wouldn´t apply to a camera with flapping mirror and noisy shutter, of course...).

 

OK, all this shows there are different opinions and experiences. Best thing is if you´re able to actually handle any camera you contemplate to buy, and see if it works for you.

[Overgaard]

The EVF differ a bit from Digilux 2 to Digilux 2, but you can adjust it in the control panel, and when using it all the time (or after some usage) you will learn to use it for framing as well as checking the frame you just shot - thus enabling you to adjust the settings if it's overexposed or such.

 

And even the EVF is not exactly color-correct, you will learn to see if the WB (white balance) needs adjusting.

 

In many ways I miss my EVF on my dSLR because on the dSLR I have to use the screen to look at the recent taken picture to see if it needs adjustment. In the Digilux 2 EVF I see it at once and can continue shooting unless I need to adjust.

 

So I use the EVF all the time and my camera is always on because the EVF doesn't eat much battery (one battery will last 500-1,000 shots).

 

Replacement of CCD is free at both Leica and Panasonic. Some agents and dealers need to be informed about this, but when the camera gets to the factory it's pretty clear. It gets fixed for free.

[Guest jimmy pro]

That's sort of like choosing between a Hyundai XL350 (top of the line, discontinued 2 years ago) and a Hyundai Accent (subcompact but still being made). Assuming of course that someone replaced the Hyundai badges with Mercedes stars and doubled the price I'd get whatever Lumix is the replacement for the one they relabel DLux-3.

[dugby]

Hi, I have both the D2 and DL-2,..... (also a D1 and an L1) but who's counting ?

 

I specifically chose a DL-2 over the DL-3 because of the lower digital noise of the DL-2, as shown in the side-by-side comparisons shots on pbase-dot-com

 

I can say with ease that the images from my D2 are much better than those from the DL-2, as previous described above by others. The D2 is a great camera, but requires a bit of care or effort to shoot cleanly, once mastered it's a wonderful camera and a joy to use.

 

My L1 has an optical viewfinder, and when I switch to the D2, I don't feel badly about the D2's EVF (Electronic View Finder), you just get used to it quite quickly.

 

The D2 shutter is almost vibration-free and noiseless, so assists with almost no mechanical vibrations at low shutter speeds. I too have shot hand-held in the 1/6 sec range with ease. I posted some low speed samples on the forum back in 2005, if you care to search.

 

I gave my DL-2 to my daughter after a got an L1, whilst my D2 was having it's sensor replaced. Many thanks to Leica honoring it's customers by extending a warranty to it's customers on the D2 sensor failures.

 

My D2 is now my backup to the L1.

 

If I had to buy another camera again today, I'd still buy a 2005 vintage D2, the images have the "Leica glow"

[spylaw4]

I'm with Hsin on this one! I have in the years I've had the D2 only used the screen on a small handful of occasions, mainly at night when I"m using a tripod or working in an awkward position. I never have EVF usage problems.

 

@Michael - The 7dayshop batteries were as far as I can tell identical to the Leica ones and so branded. They are still going strong.

[Bostontom]

I went through the same decision tree a short while ago, and (without the help of this forum, about which I did not know) I ended up choosing a Digilux 2, which I've had for about month.

 

I still need a pocket camera, after my wife stole my Canon digital elph, but I cannot recommend the Digilux 2 highly enough. (I'm considering picking up a Ricoh R7; at around $250 you get decent optics, a 28-200 equivalent lens and a little, little package -- or so they say. Anyone got any experience with those?)

 

The Digilux 2 is a real camera -- it has returned me to the pleasure of photography I had when I was using my Nikon FM 2 on a regular basis. It is light and easy to transport, fast to boot up, and has a just wonderful lens. I own a Nikon D80, and while that is a fine camera, and produces really good results when matched up with my old manual everything primes (including metering -- which, thanks to the magic of digital, I can eyeball and correct on the fly) but I take the Digilux with me most of the time.

 

It is a camera that takes some getting used to -- I'm still working out lots about picture taking with it. But it is just a pleasure to use, fast and instinctive, all the controls where you want them and so on.

 

FWIW, I bought mine from a high-end used camera shop on the (American) west coast. They get theirs from Leica, I think as part of the channel formed by D2 owners who trade their in-need of repair cameras in against a Digilux 3. In any event, after bidding and losing on a lot of Ebay auctions, I got mine with 1 year Leica warranty and a new sensor for $675, or about fourteen Euros at current exchange rates.

 

the only thing I lack is a UV/protective filter that fits the unusual front end of the camera. If anyone has any advice on where to get one of those, I'd be grateful. Other than that, buy the camera, have fun.

 

Best,

 

Tom

[Guest flatfour]

The Digilux 2 is a great camera - (first I've heard about the batteries, but I have two I rotate anyway). My son has the D3 and the camera is a PAS and not too good for serous work. If you only print up to A3 then the Digilux 2 has the amazing Vario Summicron. It's keeping its price which is a good indication of how good it is.

[spylaw4]

<snip>....

 

the only thing I lack is a UV/protective filter that fits the unusual front end of the camera. If anyone has any advice on where to get one of those, I'd be grateful. Other than that, buy the camera, have fun.

 

Best,

 

Tom

 

Tom, the 69mm filter size is quite an odd one. You may be able to still get a 69mm filter by asking the US Leica distributor, or even emailing Solms (and good luck!). Failing this try Panasonic for the equivalent filter for the LC-1, and/or watch eBay like a hawk!

 

The only other suggestion is to go for the next size up or down and get an adapter. I use a 67mm polariser with a 69-67 adapter without problem.

[d_lague]

eBay is a good source. 69mm is used on video cameras.

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[jaapv]

Tom, the 69mm filter size is quite an odd one. You may be able to still get a 69mm filter by asking the US Leica distributor, or even emailing Solms (and good luck!). Failing this try Panasonic for the equivalent filter for the LC-1, and/or watch eBay like a hawk!

 

The only other suggestion is to go for the next size up or down and get an adapter. I use a 67mm polariser with a 69-67 adapter without problem.

 

Heliopan and B&W supply 69 mm afaik.