leicanet Posted June 17, 2008 Share #1 Posted June 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear LUF friends, after reading an interesting article about macrophotography in one of the latest issues of the LFI, suddenly I re-discovered how much I would like to do some macro work...and the R9 with a decent macro lens definitively looks like an interesting combination to my eyes... I own an M8 but for macro work, even when using the 90/4 Macro Elmar plus the M macro adapter, this combo has a lot of limitations (max 1.33). I also have an old Nikkormat with macro lens and that does its job but... So after some research I have found a demo R9 (full 2 years warranty) at about half price than new. No lens yet but I can surely get one later...But I have lots of doubts...first of all to get the R9 digital back will be quite difficult nowadays since it has been discontinued by Leica, and expensive (£ 2000/€3000?), secondly and may be more importantly there are rumours of a new Leica DSRL (R10), which brings me to my main question: shall I wait until the news become reality and look into the new camera capabilities or still get the R9 now at a good price, stick to it and may be use it analogically first and then patiently look for a used digital back bargain (I guess people wanting to upgrade to the R10 will probably be selling their older R equipment, including the digital back and loads of lenses) ? I guess the quality of the pictures taken with the R9 and its dedicated digital back is quite high already and so difficult to improve dramatically, or is the digital back going to be completely obsolete after the release of the new R10 (war of pixels...) ? Many thanks in advance for your advice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Hi leicanet, Take a look here To Leica R owners: R9...Shall I still buy it...?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted June 17, 2008 Share #2 Posted June 17, 2008 I own an R9 with DMR and I am happy with it. But at this point in time I would not invest into this system for several reasons: - Quality at ISO 100 is ok but above this it is way behind current competitors' models. A new Leica DSLR certainly needs to be up to date at higher speeds as well. And the DMR has a lot of other limitations (speed, monitor size, power system). - Lots of rumours about (dis)continuation/compatibility of R system. If an improved R10 is announced at the Photokina, many will sell their R9 DMR. If nothing is announced, many will also sell their R9 DMR and lenses and switch to other brands. So in any case prices of used R equipment should fall from Sep 15 onward. If you can wait another 3 months I would do it. But of course this is the rational position, emotionally things might look different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 17, 2008 Share #3 Posted June 17, 2008 I'd wait. If a new SLR is announced then I'd expect DMR prices to drop as people change to the new system. the DMR will be just good in 12 months time as it is now. I imaginge if you are looking to use the camera primarily for Macro work that high ISO isn't that important. After saying that, it's true that there are better choices for high ISO work, on the other hand I've seen some outstanding results from the DMR and I'd be interested in one myself if the price dropped sufficiently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 17, 2008 Share #4 Posted June 17, 2008 I own an R9 with DMR and I am happy with it. But at this point in time I would not invest into this system for several reasons:- Quality at ISO 100 is ok but above this it is way behind current competitors' models. A new Leica DSLR certainly needs to be up to date at higher speeds as well. And the DMR has a lot of other limitations (speed, monitor size, power system).{snipped}. No, this is simply not true, IMO... The quality of the DMR is exceptional up to 800 ISO with the latest firmware. None of the other next generation cameras I've used to date touch the quality of the DMR files (1d3, 1ds3, D3) in the "normal" ISO range. At ISO 800 and under, it's certainly not "way behind" current competitor's models in terms of image quality. Don't get me wrong, I would still wait to see what Leica has in store at Photokina, but the colour and tonal abilities of the DMR are simply astounding. It's my favourite digital camera to date in terms of actual file capability. So if you're seeing a lot of noise at ISO 400, for example, you are either using the first firmware or underexposing significantly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted June 17, 2008 Share #5 Posted June 17, 2008 No, this is simply not true, IMO... The quality of the DMR is exceptional up to 800 ISO with the latest firmware. None of the other next generation cameras I've used to date touch the quality of the DMR files (1d3, 1ds3, D3) in the "normal" ISO range. At ISO 800 and under, it's certainly not "way behind" current competitor's models in terms of image quality. Don't get me wrong, I would still wait to see what Leica has in store at Photokina, but the colour and tonal abilities of the DMR are simply astounding. It's my favourite digital camera to date in terms of actual file capability. So if you're seeing a lot of noise at ISO 400, for example, you are either using the first firmware or underexposing significantly... I can only speak for myself, and I am not happy with the performance at 400 and above. I shoot only Raw, using the latest firmware, and I see a lot of noise in the dark parts of the picture. I am pretty sure it is not the result of underexposure. My reference to other cameras is based on test results in photo magazines (eg. Colorfoto in Germany). Many people laugh about these but I think they give a good indication. The DMR was already pretty weak at 400 when it was launched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted June 17, 2008 Share #6 Posted June 17, 2008 If it's the optics you are after, spend your money there. The R9 is a great film camera and if you will still use film later you can easily find any number of bodies for sale right now. The DMR is a good concept - but I would wait for Photokina before you buy a back - unless you like the DMR interchange-ability which is what I like(d) about the R8/R9. Until they dropped the idea out of 'production' necessity. Oh well, hopefully we will all be impressed with a new Digital body that will be backwards lens compatible and long-lasting as well. I'll continue to shoot film and scan - it works for me while the technology settles down. Either way, the 100 Apo-macro is great lens - as are the others. Take your time and think it through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topoxforddoc Posted June 17, 2008 Share #7 Posted June 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) At half price, I would buy one, providing you're a happy film user. The DMR is outstanding in its image quality, although it does have significant limitations. For macro photography, you won't have a problem with the DMR if you find one. To be honest, the R10 has to be really stunning for me to lay yet more money. The R9/DMR lets me do all want from fast jets to photographing concerts. For ultra low light photography, you just can't beat a M and summilux. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted June 17, 2008 Share #8 Posted June 17, 2008 No, this is simply not true, IMO... The quality of the DMR is exceptional up to 800 ISO with the latest firmware. None of the other next generation cameras I've used to date touch the quality of the DMR files (1d3, 1ds3, D3) in the "normal" ISO range. At ISO 800 and under, it's certainly not "way behind" current competitor's models in terms of image quality. Don't get me wrong, I would still wait to see what Leica has in store at Photokina, but the colour and tonal abilities of the DMR are simply astounding. It's my favourite digital camera to date in terms of actual file capability. So if you're seeing a lot of noise at ISO 400, for example, you are either using the first firmware or underexposing significantly... Jamie, I totally agree with you and in both our case this is based on heavy use of the equipment. To hear it said that at 100 ISO the DMR is merely OK and that 400 ISO was always weak seems strange to me. The DMR blows anything out of the water up to 800 ISO, it is always wonderful to see the results. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 18, 2008 Share #9 Posted June 18, 2008 I'd wait, Photokina is 3 months away (ok, for the pedants, a litte over 3 months, but we expect some sort of announcement on 15 September). If we don't come away from there with a clear idea of where the R is headed, even if pecise specification, date and price are still with the fairies, I think you can write-off the R long term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 18, 2008 Share #10 Posted June 18, 2008 Mark, I agree Photokina should give a strong indication of leica's commitment to the R cameras. Lee was always described as an 'R' fan, I wonder if it was his 'pet' project and his departure has put the brakes on the R release a little (or a lot of course). It did cross my mind that one of the reasons for his leaving may have been that he was directing too much resource to the R line at the expense of the (profitable) M. All speculation, no facts - or even rumours - to back any of that up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted June 18, 2008 Share #11 Posted June 18, 2008 mark - Wait for Photokina, and ignore any compalints about the DMR at over ISO400 -- No a probelm with firmware version 1.3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 18, 2008 Share #12 Posted June 18, 2008 One of the things that has really surprised me about the DMR is how well it works and, delayed firmware aside, how little trouble there has been. You'd think that bolting on a digital back onto a film body which just happened - by accident or design - to provide an interface and the information required (was there ever a data back?) would be asking for trouble but the reality is that the DMR seems to have been less trouble than the M8 where the engineers were able to start with a blank sheet with only a handful of must-haves. The DMR doesn't appear to suffer from the problems we've seen on the M8 - banding, streaking, IR, lock ups, silent death and the rest; add in the ease of focussing and I have the feeling the DMR image quality is higher than that of the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 18, 2008 Share #13 Posted June 18, 2008 Mark I couldn't agree more. Leica and Imacon did an incredible job, especially when you consider that you can bolt one onto the back of a 1996 body... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted June 18, 2008 Share #14 Posted June 18, 2008 I agree with Jamie. The R9/DMR is up there with the best of them, add the superb range of R lenses which other marques do not have and that alone makes the combo still a very good buy indeed. Used DMR backs are becoming more available and this combo will still be taking excellent macro or any other photographs for a long while yet. The R100mm macro is a stunning lens to use, very easy to focus and produces clear, very sharp images right up to ISO 800. No one has mentioned the 16 bit RAW images that the DMR produces, as do most MF digital backs compared with integrated DSLR's. The down side is larger size images (19.5Mb RAW) which may contain more image data, and probably the reason for the superb image files. Finally, the replacement for this high end digital camera set up when it is finally available is likely to be whole lot more expensive when new, than your ex-demo R9 plus good used DMR! How many superb quality images could you be taking between then and now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.H.G. Posted June 18, 2008 Share #15 Posted June 18, 2008 Hello! I wonder what you all are waiting for. Here in Germany it is quite clear that neither a R10 or a M9 will be shown at the photokina 2008. The SKL-factor prohibits it. For your problem, digital Macro, I would suggest a completely different solution, that is reasonable as far as price and technique are concerned: buy a VISOFLEX and have it´s bayonet converted from M to R. So you can use it at your M8 with all R lenses. Since the arrival of the M7 this set was used by many photographers with interest in bird photography, as the M7 was quieter than the Rs. The M7 ´s AE mode made the operation a little faster than on other Ms, but macro, as I understand is a slow process anyway. With little cost you can wait what will arrive from Wetzlar in the next years. In the meantime you can enjoy photography with the only real focussing screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 18, 2008 Share #16 Posted June 18, 2008 If there will be no M9 and no R10, reportedly three lenses for the M8 (24/1.4, 18/4 and a 50/0.95), it does make you wonder what all these space they've booked is for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 18, 2008 Share #17 Posted June 18, 2008 ...it does make you wonder what all these space they've booked is for. Leica's entry into the cinematography market? Lots of bucks, lots of margin. They did say they were forking on about a zillion new lenses, they can't all be for the M and R can they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted June 18, 2008 Share #18 Posted June 18, 2008 If there will be no M9 and no R10, reportedly three lenses for the M8 (24/1.4, 18/4 and a 50/0.95), it does make you wonder what all these space they've booked is for. Mark, you can check the floor plan of the Kina, Leica only booked a small area when compared to other heavyweight players. They're next to Hasselblad in the show this year. Back then I've predicted that nothing will happen this year and everybody laughed, because Guy said Leica has tripled their booth size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted June 18, 2008 Share #19 Posted June 18, 2008 In the mean time, it's certainly not good timing for Leica to introduce a new camera ... think about these: 1. Pissing off existing R users with a half baked new mount? 2. Attracting Canon users when the 5D Mark II is coming? 3. Seducing the Nikon fanatics when they'll see the D700? 4. not to mention the A900 all folks on earth already knew about. 5. Hasselblad is dumping their 31MP MFDB at 17k US or less. Leica needs to take more time on hard thinking/working ... at the end of the day, they'll find us die hard R fans are the most lovely and the only ones who will pay the insane price translating into their paycheck. As many have pointed out above, if the future of R is bright, the R9 will get dumped, if the R is doomed, the R9 will become instant paperweight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 18, 2008 Share #20 Posted June 18, 2008 Mark, you can check the floor plan of the Kina, Leica only booked a small area when compared to other heavyweight players. They're next to Hasselblad in the show this year. Back then I've predicted that nothing will happen this year and everybody laughed, because Guy said Leica has tripled their booth size. I can't find a plan where it shows how large the stand is. Can you link to one please? All I can find is that they will be in Hall 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.