poynterama Posted June 6, 2008 Share #1 Posted June 6, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone, I haven't posted here much so go easy on the newbie Despite loving my D2, I'm interested in doing more 35mm photography, hopefully with an emphasis on black and white. I'd predominantly use my R4s or a CL for this. I don't have any experience using bulk film but would like to give it a go (surely a good option for a cash-strapped postgrad student...). What sort of film loader should I go for? I have access to a darkroom so loading there won't be an issue. Is a second-hand loader OK or should I really go for a new one? What about cassettes? Do I need a trimmer or can I get away without one? Thanks in advance Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Hi poynterama, Take a look here Bulk film- questions from a newbie :). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
zeitz Posted June 6, 2008 Share #2 Posted June 6, 2008 I have used both readily available types. They both worked fine for me. I do tape the seams to insure no light leak. You can load the film in a changing bag or a darkroom. If you go to a used camera show, you should be able to find them nearly free. Load one casette, shot and develop to check that there is no dirt in the felt that is causing scratchs. Once that is verified, you can load up lots of rolls. The casettes are not indefinitely reusable due to felt deterioration; so buy them new. You don't need a template. Just approxiate the leader. It is more critical on a screw mount Leica. Enjoy. You will saves lots of money, especially if you are using slide film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted June 6, 2008 Share #3 Posted June 6, 2008 I have used both readily available types. They both worked fine for me. I do tape the seams to insure no light leak. You can load the film in a changing bag or a darkroom. If you go to a used camera show, you should be able to find them nearly free. Load one casette, shot and develop to check that there is no dirt in the felt that is causing scratchs. Once that is verified, you can load up lots of rolls. The casettes are not indefinitely reusable due to felt deterioration; so buy them new. You don't need a template. Just approxiate the leader. It is more critical on a screw mount Leica. Enjoy. You will saves lots of money, especially if you are using slide film. IMHO they are not worth using unless you can use proper reloadable cartridges, I have some Leica ones which I used in the M3, but I dont think they would work with the R4s or CL. I tried re-using felt light trap ones a good while ago, and all was well until I got a scratched roll, and as luck would have it the scratch went through an important shot (one I could make money from!) Retouching is a lot easier with photoshop, but I don't think the savings are worth the hassle. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted June 6, 2008 Share #4 Posted June 6, 2008 Sam, Not sure what the selection is like down under, but B&H ships all over. I like the Watson daylight loaders. I've had one since the 80s that I still use and bought a new one in 2006 after getting back into film in 2005. You need a darkroom or a changing bag to put the roll of film in, but you need the same to thread your wheels for development. What I particularly like about the Watsons is the locks they've added to ensure you don't remove the lid when the big roll can be exposed to light. I have a third loaded that doesn't have this and almost ruined a brand new roll of HP5, I came really close to removing the lid before I'd turned it back in light safe position. Watson | Model 100 Bulk Film Loader | W100 | B&H Photo Video Cassettes: I prefer the metal ones like this one here: General Brand | 35mm Cassette For Bulk Film - Plastic | NP11137 You should have no problems using them in any LTM, M, R or CL. A tip: I believe Efke film is still shipped in reusable metal cassettes. I bought a few rolls last year that were. The cassettes that they use are excellent for bulk loading. You don't need a trimmer, just use the lead of a commercially loaded roll as a template until you get the hang of it. Cheers, - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted June 8, 2008 Share #5 Posted June 8, 2008 The labarinth carts are best but they are camera specific.I used reloadable ones for decades. Get the kind where both ends open so you can properly clean the felt. KEEP THEM CLEAN beforeduring and after use. Old film cans or plastic bags. Dirt is your ememy. I prefer the Watson as they do not have a felt light seal, but a closing door. The old black model 66 black bakalite ones work if you modify them to hold the film down against the counter. I got the mod design from a later one. load bulk This should answer your questions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullis Posted June 22, 2008 Share #6 Posted June 22, 2008 Don't worry at all about shaping the leader. I've done this for years with no problems at all. All you need is a scissors; if you try to shape, you will get overcuts, mistakes, etc. which can cause problems. You may even get film chips, which will cause problems. You know, scissors like to cut in straight lines. The best scissors are the kind they give little children in kindergarten, you actually could shape with them if you used the inside of the blades with the blades spread wide open. But you don't need to shape anyway. See the attached image and fill in the missing sprocket holes along the edges with your imagination. NOTHING could be simpler. One of my friends who shoots a lot starts each cassette in the dark, even though he uses a bulk loader; he doesn't like to lose the last frame. It would be nice, but I've never bothered with it. Some people don't even use loaders, they just stretch a length of film out as far as they can reach. That way, there is no wasted exposed film at the end. I prefer the felt trap type loader just for simplicity and can't remember when I've had trouble with it. I don't think I have. Periodically, though, if I remember to do it, I take a piece of masking tape and push it into the slot in the trap, one one way, the other the other way to remove anything that is loose in there, like sand, etc. If concerned about your cassettes, you can do the same there. If the felt starts getting ragged toss the cassette. They last a long time, though. I am still using some that go back at least to the 1940's. If you ever send film out to be processed, be sure to instruct them to pop the end off rather than using an opener and to return the cassettes. Taping. This is IMPORTANT! Use a piece of tape long enough to tape one side, go around the spool and tape the other side. Both sides must be taped. If they aren't, the tape will pull off the spool and you'll be looking for a darkroom, and you better have an all black film can with you just in case. And yes, before you start, spend some time with the loader and your cassette so you don't load them backwards. I actually did that once. Not only is it a real problem, but it could be embarrassing! I hope I'm not intimidating you with all this detailed stuff because it is very easy. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/54811-bulk-film-questions-from-a-newbie/?do=findComment&comment=586935'>More sharing options...
peter_n Posted June 22, 2008 Share #7 Posted June 22, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) The Alden 74 loader is very similar to the Watson loader described above. They have no felt and instead use a lightproof baffle and they are very easy & reliable to use. You load the bulk film in the dark then you can load into the cassettes in normal daylight. Very convenient. I use two new(ish) Aldens and have had no issues so far. I use cassettes I pick up from local labs - use them once then chuck them. Never had a problem. I use a trimmer to shape the end but scissors do fine too. It's kind of boring to do but I find it a bit therapeutic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullis Posted June 22, 2008 Share #8 Posted June 22, 2008 The Alden 74 loader is very similar to the Watson loader described above. They have no felt and instead use a lightproof baffle and they are very easy & reliable to use. You load the bulk film in the dark then you can load into the cassettes in normal daylight. Very convenient. I use two new(ish) Aldens and have had no issues so far. The problem we've had with the Aldens (in a school situation where they got a lot of hard use) is that the tab that holds the little door in sometimes breaks off. Then we have to tape them in with black tape and they get funky and flop around. They seem to be very heavily built, but I think the plastic is fairly brittle, more so than the Watsons. The Watsons are not as well built as they used to be. For use by one non-student type person any of them should work fine. I use an Alden 70 mm which is just the same only much bigger and never have had a problem with it. If I'd ever had trouble with the Lloyd loaders (which I actually prefer) I wouldn't use them but I never have any trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted June 22, 2008 Share #9 Posted June 22, 2008 Yes the Aldens are made of bakelite and you are right, they are brittle. I was lucky enough to buy a brand-new one from Freestyle last year and another new one from eBay. They are expensive new - $45. However the used ones on eBay that sell for $10-15 are mostly junk and I think a new Watson is a better buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullis Posted June 23, 2008 Share #10 Posted June 23, 2008 ...I think a new Watson is a better buy. I agree with that. The old Watsons are better than either though if you can find one in good condition at a thrift store. We've had problems with Watsons sometimes (I should say, we've had problems with students using Watsons). Specifically, forgetting to open the gate. 100' of film with exactly the same scratches going all the way through 23 cassettes! But You aren't going to do that! L. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael-IIIf Posted June 23, 2008 Share #11 Posted June 23, 2008 Sam, Like Carl, I bought a Watson loader in the '80s and found it very useful. It is actually fun if you keep stock chemicals mixed because you can roll a cassette of 10 or 12 frames to shoot a specific subject then process them. You can also squeeze in 40 frames! So it adds a new dimension. When I used it in the '80s, as an impoverished student, it was the only way I could afford photography. I was thinking of using it again but when I checked the prices of a bulk roll against the prices some of the online retailers offer for conventional cassettes there was no financial gain to be made. Keep an eye on 7dayshop.com - Online Store I bought a load of FP4 there cheaper than what I paid for FP4 in bulk twenty five years ago. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chango Posted June 23, 2008 Share #12 Posted June 23, 2008 Hello Sam, I use the loader Rowi which can load the cassette in light of day. The only problem is to load the movie in the winder. This request ... calm and tranquillity. This is not the type of exercise that I do at breakfast. For this, I do not use the dark changing bag, but I do directly in my dark room. The dark changing bag can cause, if the problem, and the condensation or traces of sweat. It is also on account of the comfort. Regarding the price of the film metre, it is true what is said michael_boylan, we must pay attention to prices. This may go double. Some shops practise good prices on the cartridge and not on the coil and vice versa. For this article, I seek the best address in London. See my post on this forum HERE. The best price for the coil of the HP5 30 metres in Brussels, is 49.50 euros (+/- 2.60 euros for a 135-36). compared with 3.70 euros the film sold by 10 and sold 4.50 per unit. The economy is real (Without forgetting the other advantages mentioned above). Two stores have this award. For other much (much much much) more expensive ... Sincerely yours JM (Sorry for my English bad quality) A link for you HERE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael-IIIf Posted June 23, 2008 Share #13 Posted June 23, 2008 chango, Looking at the link Jean-Marc De Coninck to your site on the other thread I'm very impressed with your work. You should post some of those images on this forum. best Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chango Posted June 24, 2008 Share #14 Posted June 24, 2008 Thank you Michael JM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
poynterama Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share #15 Posted July 2, 2008 Wow thanks for all the replies!!! I'm really keen to give this a go now that the mystery surrounding it has been uncloaked I was pretty worried at first that I'd make some stupid mistake but I feel much more confident now. Glad to see that bulk film is still readily available via on-line stores as it has been a very long time since I can remember seeing it in a *real* store!! ps. some excellent images on your site, chango Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 2, 2008 Share #16 Posted July 2, 2008 And a bulk loader is a bulk loader take your pick. If you have access to a dark room buy reloadable canisters and load in the dark so you have fresh film all the way in to the spool. If you dont have access to a dark room then used cans from the local kodak store are fine and sticky tape on to the tab left exposed after they chop the colour film off. You lose the last frame because you are working in the light till you close the hatch on the loader and start loading. That can be a bug. Nothing you can do unless you have a darkroom. Trimming, you wont need to do with your SLR but you need to with the M and if you forget make a nick with your teeth and tear it down to about half way. Everything is really simple. I still recommend photography family affair...if you can convince your other half to do your b/w developing youve got it made:D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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