luigi bertolotti Posted June 3, 2008 Share #21 Posted June 3, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why so? With two 28 yet (Summicron & Elmarit asph), there is no room for anything else but a Summilux IMHO. Agree... the current Elmarit 28 asph is already in the Summarits price range... and is rather new... unless they decide that 2,5 is THE TREND and for marketing reasons find the way to stretch 2,8 to 2,5... (unuseful, imho). Just for speculation... I think they'd have less engineering/cost/dimension issues if they decide that the supposed "new luminous primes" are to be targeted ONLY to M8 (with less area to cover)... I think that something like a 24 f 2 or f 1,4 (or between...) would require an indecent front element to cover 24x36; of course, if they'll decide to announce "prestige" luminous primes for M8 only... the hipotesis of a FF "M9" can be trashed away... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Hi luigi bertolotti, Take a look here Leica news. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted June 3, 2008 Share #22 Posted June 3, 2008 ...which is compared to the Japanese competitors (and even Cosina-Voigtländer) a very tiny manufactory... Does anyone know the relative sizes of Leica and Voigtlander in terms of units sold? Just curious as I've only ever seen one Voigtlander camera in the wild - and that was in Australia of all places - that's probably down to my bad luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 3, 2008 Share #23 Posted June 3, 2008 ... if they'll decide to announce "prestige" luminous primes for M8 only... the hipotesis of a FF "M9" can be trashed away... Or postponed to the Greek kalends, unless those 'cropped' lenses remain dedicated to the M8 and the CLD??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
veraikon Posted June 3, 2008 Share #24 Posted June 3, 2008 Why I suppose a 28 Summarit - because of the CLdigital. As mentioned before CLdigital + Summarits are “beginner / Intro” class for Leica products. And they need something wide which can produced for the 1200 € in Solms. So a Summarit is in my opinion probably. the current Elmarit 28 asph is already in the Summarits price range.. May be (1500 for the Elmarit, 1250 for the Summarit) – but the new at the Summarit line is as far as I know the production method which has to be more economic than the older style . So I suggest in future there will be only the Summarit line and the Cron + Lux lines. But I may be wrong. Does anyone know the relative sizes of Leica and Voigtlander in terms of units sold? Only the units of Leica told by Kaufmann at the HR feature It is about 1000 M8 and 500 analogue Ms (M7/MP) a month. The only cash cow for Leica seems to be the binocular affairs. At the other hand we have to see that Cosina is mainly a third party producer. I never bought a “Cosina camera” but I own two: a Contax S2 and a Yashica FR3 2000s . Rangefinders are not the main affair of Cosina –Voigtländer. For me it seems to be more a non deficit spending hobby of Mr Kobayashi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted June 3, 2008 Share #25 Posted June 3, 2008 1) Many users would appreciate a compact "Digital CL" 2) A "Digital CL" with Summarit lens line at its center (with a new RF system ?) would be a logical development for Leica So many people speak and speculate of it, so becoming "more than a rumor". I'll attribute your statement to English not being your mother tongue. In English "more than a rumor" is another way of saying "it's most likely true". So if the person who said it here first can provide verification, cool. If not, it's just blowing smoke up our butts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 3, 2008 Share #26 Posted June 3, 2008 I'll attribute your statement to English not being your mother tongue. In English "more than a rumor" is another way of saying "it's most likely true". So if the person who said it here first can provide verification, cool. If not, it's just blowing smoke up our butts. Only up yours jimmypro. As far as criticizing someone else for their English it appears you could use a refresher on spelling. I work in the photo retail industry for a business that is a Leica distributor. My "rumors" come from reliable sources, however, any thing is a rumor until it is actually produced and it seems to me you are reading more into part of the statement that I made than needs to be. In the end we'll all see if the rumor is truth when Photokina rolls around. It could be that someone is blowing smoke up me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 3, 2008 Share #27 Posted June 3, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...Since Leica reps are under threat of immediate termination from disclosure of new products before they are officially announced it is hard to tell fact from fiction... ...My "rumors" come from reliable sources... Are those reliable sources the Leica reps you refer to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted June 3, 2008 Share #28 Posted June 3, 2008 Only up yours jimmypro. As far as criticizing someone else for their English it appears you could use a refresher on spelling. Touché. Or is that, tush-eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted June 3, 2008 Share #29 Posted June 3, 2008 As far as criticizing someone else for their English Except I didn't criticize him, I excused his misunderstanding of the expression "more than a rumor". So your trying to make it look like I insulted someone, in order to distract everyone from the fact you don't have any verification that a digital CL is "more than a rumor". Nice try. Well, not really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 5, 2008 Share #30 Posted June 5, 2008 Are those reliable sources the Leica reps you refer to? In the good old days (5 years ago) reps would come around a month or more in advance and tell us about new equipment and train us to sell it. This gave us time to hype it, presell it and generally build up enthusiasm for it. Along came non-disclosure statements, immediate termination and the end to any truly reliable information regarding new equipment. Most reps today are not company employees, they are contract reps who come to collect an order and could care less that we sales people hear about new gear from our customers first and any training is done by reading on-line reviews. Not all, but most. I attribute this move to on-line purchases, where customers save money and sacrifice personal relationships with local business, big box stores where employees are not expected to have photographic knowledge but be cashiers and the competition between camera manufacturers to conceal their new products from their competitors. It is too bad because it dumbs up sales staff and leaves knowledge and service oriented businesses in the same category as big box stores. I'm not denigrating sales staff at big box stores because it isn't their fault that they are not trained, it is the nature of the business today. Is any information reliable today? I base reliability on the history of what I've been told in the past by the individuals. The history of the individuals I'm referring to have been reliable. What has changed is the reliability of the information coming from the company they represent, which can change due to R&D problems, marketing issues and just plain old subterfuge (I think politicians call it disinformation or plausable deniability) to confuse the competition. Up until two weeks ago I would have stated, with confidence, that Leica will introduce an R10 DSLR at Photokina. A very subtle question, over lunch, now leads me to believe that this may not happen (no I will not disclose the question). Up till now the information I've gathered regarding an M camera, to go along with the new Summarits in price point, has been reliable. What could change all that is R&D problems that may delay it's release. It also seems like a logical step for Leica to take in a market that has seen the M8 top out in sales partly due to its price. Leica needs to get themselves back in todays market and whether or not they can admit it to themselves price is a, if not the, major issue with a majority of digital camera buyers. I'm not even confident that a $3K M is going to be the answer for them as they need to find a way to attract a whole new generation of photographers who have DSLR and P&S in mind when they come in to spend money. Leicas' nitch market is unfortunately headed for the nitch in the crypt. This is the best that I can answer your question given the circumstances as I do not want anyone to loose their job over a posting in this forum. If I eat crow in the fall so be it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 5, 2008 Share #31 Posted June 5, 2008 Thank you Ronald. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted June 5, 2008 Share #32 Posted June 5, 2008 Christian Erhardt said that anyone with factual inside info at Leica has had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. According to him, the terms of that agreement are such: if they breech it, they not only loose there job, they also have to reimburse Leica for money damages to the company rising from leaking the info, that would be at least $50 thou. Anyone could feel free to contact him to verify this. So this is why I highly believe that anything said to come from a "reliable source" is speculation from someone who didn't have to sign the agreement, because he isn't in the know to begin with. Though I admit it's possible some guy could be such an idiot blabbermouth he ignores the agreement at his own risk. Possible but not probable. Jim Provenzano (who's upfront revealing the source of this info). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 5, 2008 Share #33 Posted June 5, 2008 Christian Erhardt said that anyone with factual inside info at Leica has had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. According to him, the terms of that agreement are such: if they breech it, they not only loose there job, they also have to reimburse Leica for money damages to the company rising from leaking the info, that would be at least $50 thou. Anyone could feel free to contact him to verify this. So this is why I highly believe that anything said to come from a "reliable source" is speculation from someone who didn't have to sign the agreement, because he isn't in the know to begin with. Though I admit it's possible some guy could be such an idiot blabbermouth he ignores the agreement at his own risk. Possible but not probable. Jim Provenzano (who's upfront revealing the source of this info). This information is public knowledge and has been for some time so it doesn't make you "upfront" about anything. Since you've decided to rant on about this topic why don't you explain to us why you think Leica won't introduce a new M camera in the fall. Also name calling doesn't accomplish anything constructive on this forum or anywhere else. As I recall you are the person who called submissions to Leica's campaign "crappy photos they call art." When you resort to these tactics it takes a productive forum down to a level that is less than conducive to any intelligent dialog. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnastovall Posted June 5, 2008 Share #34 Posted June 5, 2008 Lenses with a large maximum aperture like f 1.4 compared to 2.8 or 3.5. Paul In my book fast lenses just barely start at 1.4 and truly start getting fast at 1.2, 1.0 and 0.95. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted June 5, 2008 Share #35 Posted June 5, 2008 This information is public knowledge and has been for some time so it doesn't make you "upfront" about anything. It makes me "upfront" about the source of my information. As different from someone who offers nothing but the tired old "reliable source" b.s. to support his own personal speculation and rumormongering. But then, everyone else already understands that. why don't you explain to us why you think Leica won't introduce a new M camera in the fall. I never said I think Leica won't introduce a new M camera in the fall. Show me where I did, or else it's even more evidence you make sh*t up as you go. If I had said so I would of been talking out my ass and then when asked to substantiate it I'd have nothing but the "I heard it from a reliable source" b.s. But then, everybody else already understands all that too. Also name calling doesn't accomplish anything constructive on this forum or anywhere else. I agree. That's why I've never called you a name. I've got a few choice one's that would definately apply, but I didn't post any. So, this is just more of your b.s. As I recall you are the person who called submissions to Leica's campaign "crappy photos they call art." Here's exactly what was said: Your wise revelation Quote: Originally Posted by offshore: A photographer can't take a picture without a camera and lens regardless of their vision or what they can do. My response: And a musician can't make music without an instrument, yada yada yada. But the # of weekend photogs who believe buying a Leica can make them shoot like Cartier-Bresson is far more than weekend guitar pickers who believe buying a Gibson can make them sound like Les Paul. Maybe it's easier to look at your own crappy photographs and think they're art, than to listen to yourself hitting wrong notes and buzzing strings and think you sound good. Or maybe it's because your friends and/or spouse can humor you about your photography but can't help holding there ears when you try to play the guitar. The point is, yeah the camera can make a difference, but not nearly as much as the marketing guys would like you to believe. So where did I say people's contributions to the M Campaign are crappy? Again, more of your b.s. When you resort to these tactics it takes a productive forum down to a level that is less than conducive to any intelligent dialog. Good advice to follow. Why don't you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 5, 2008 Share #36 Posted June 5, 2008 OK guys. Enough thanks. This isn't the playground. Yellow cards next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 5, 2008 Share #37 Posted June 5, 2008 ... what are "fast lenses" ? Depends upon many factors, mainly focal lengths, zooms or primes and vintage of lenses of course. A 50/2 or a 21/4 were fast lenses 30 or 40 years ago. Nowadays, a 50mm lens is fast from f/0.7 to f/1.4 IMHO. Other fast lenses springing to mind if memory serves me well: 15/2.8, 16/2.8, 21/2, 28/1.4, 28/2, 35/1.2, 35/1.4, 40/1.4, 75/1.4, 75/2, 90/1, 90/2, 135/1.8, 135/2, 180/2, 200/2, 280/2.8, 300/2.8, 400/2.8, 400/3.5, 500/4, 35-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8, 200-500/2.8 and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 5, 2008 Share #38 Posted June 5, 2008 I'm sure looking forward to Photokina 2008 which will give us about 3 weeks respite before the speculation on 2010 starts... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 5, 2008 Share #39 Posted June 5, 2008 ...which will give us about 3 weeks respite before the speculation on 2010 starts... I wish I were so confident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saloti Posted June 5, 2008 Share #40 Posted June 5, 2008 ....as they need to find a way to attract a whole new generation of photographers who have DSLR and P&S in mind when they come in to spend money. Leicas' nitch market is unfortunately headed for the nitch in the crypt...... A CL for 1.500 with Summarits, this makes a lot of sense, I agree. Offering a new M8 or M9 at this stage would allow Leica to penetrate new markets, however, new markets is exactly what Leica needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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