Some News (or Rumor) About R10

[AlanG]

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...Could you tell a little about the stitching tool and your method? Thanks.

 

I use Autopano Pro and a VR head. The software can do cylindrical and spherical projection for very wide shots up to 360 degrees. But I used planar projection (rectilinear) which keeps the lines from curving but is only useful to about 110 degrees wide or so. It produces perfect stitching and blending. I made that image with several wide photos, but my VR head has multi row capability, so I could also shoot with longer lenses and assemble a mosaic. Thus there is no practical limit on the potential resolution. I had been considering going MF digital for several years but all of those systems cost a lot and have significant drawbacks.

 

Of course the down side is the additional time and trouble it takes to shoot and assemble these. And I am still working on mastering the technique. But I'm going to put together a new portfolio featuring this technique and hope it will be a successful marketing direction for me. I am also doing what I consider a very unique major personal project using some of these techniques and more. But I am not prepared to show any of those photos until I have a large number of images and can organize a show.

 

Now that I've told you, I hope you won't be competing with me in my market.

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[rick_dykstra]

Hi Alan. No I don't think I'll be competing ... :-)

 

I do wonder what I could do with similar methods though. I've taken some very nice landscapes with long lenses - up to 560mm. Stitching a few of those for a wider view, but with great resolution, could be very nice indeed.

 

I look forward to the time you are ready for your 'reveal'. :-)

 

Regards, Rick.

[AlanG]

I do wonder what I could do with similar methods though. I've taken some very nice landscapes with long lenses - up to 560mm. Stitching a few of those for a wider view, but with great resolution, could be very nice indeed.

 

That is a pretty long lens to mount onto a VR head. But I don't think you'll have to worry about rotating on the nodal plane with a 560 so your current head will probably do. Just overlap the images.

 

Here is a link to the head that I use. There is a lot of info in the user forum area. The same is true at the Autopano site.

 

Nodal NInja 5 Professional Panoramic Tripod Head

 

AutoPano Pro - Panorama stitching software - Panoramic photo software - image stitching

[adan]

OK - my own personal rumor, although it seems like I've seen the idea mentioned somewhere before:

 

Behold (with a little screwdriver work to replace the Nikon F mount with an R mount - and perhaps even an M mount) - the R10/S2 from Leica!

 

http://www.sinarcameras.com/file_uploads/picture/1219_0_sinarm-system2005.jpg

 

Bear in mind Leica signed a big cooperation deal with Jenoptik in June, and Jenoptik owns - Sinar.

[mjh]

Behold (with a little screwdriver work to replace the Nikon F mount with an R mount - and perhaps even an M mount) - the R10/S2 from Leica!

 

http://www.sinarcameras.com/file_uploads/picture/1219_0_sinarm-system2005.jpg

 

Bear in mind Leica signed a big cooperation deal with Jenoptik in June, and Jenoptik owns - Sinar.

That’s a red herring.

[wildlightphoto]

Alan - I didn't intend to suggest that you purchase a DMR and I apologize if I came across this way, I only wanted to point out that there is better image quality available in a small-format camera, and that the number of pixels isn't the sole determination of image quality. Leica has shown how with the DMR.

[sdai]

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I only wanted to point out that there is better image quality available in a small-format camera, and that the number of pixels isn't the sole determination of image quality. Leica has shown how with the DMR.

 

But, if the DMR sensor is cut into 36x24 full format, it will be 17.6MP.

 

Comparing apples to apples, it's even above the 1Ds Mark 2 so when it beats the 5D or even the 1Ds Mark 2, where's the surprise?

 

And don't forget to factor in the R optics.

 

Canon keeps bumping pixels numbers in their newer models and people have never seen quality reduction, resolution goes higher and noise performance increase.

 

If Leica goes 35mm full format, there's no reason the pixel number will remain at or below 17.6MP.

 

21-25MP shall be its bottom line.

[AlanG]

Alan - I didn't intend to suggest that you purchase a DMR and I apologize if I came across this way, I only wanted to point out that there is better image quality available in a small-format camera, and that the number of pixels isn't the sole determination of image quality. Leica has shown how with the DMR.

 

You didn't come off that way and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I wouldn't mind trying one out but I don't have any idea where I could do that. If anyone has posted some raw files, I'd like to look at them. But what is also true is that there are numerous features that I have gotten used to that are missing from the DMR.

 

What is often complained about on this forum, has been a lack of a road map from Leica for the R system. Regardless of how good the DMR is, they only made it for a couple of years and then failed to replace it with a new model. That does not give many DSLR shooters outside of the Leica R community any reason to follow the marque at this point. (Other than a curious nut like me.) And it gives current owners doubts about its future and their investment. (Unless they are happy with the DMR or are shooting film.)

 

So Leica may or may not have an R10 at Photokina. But if they do, that will mostly satisfy existing customers. It will take time and a major effort for Leica to re-establish credibility with non Leica pros and prove that they will keep the system updated and vital. Getting pros to switch 35mm systems is not very easy. It took a very long time for Canon to nibble away at Nikon's market share and then they switched a lot of shooters by introducing the 1Ds and 1DII.

 

Unfortunately my concern is that Leica may have a hard time coming up with potential sales figures that would justify the effort required to design, produce, and market a competitive (let alone significantly superior) DSLR system in this environment. Especially when they can simply make a new Noctilux and sell a bunch of them at $11,000!

[andybarton]

thee lack of any credible R10 rumours and no leaks at all of anything R, leads me to believe that there is no R10 to be seen, at least not this year.

 

There's certainly something interesting coming though

[vanhulsenbeek]

 

(Panorama's) Now that I've told you, I hope you won't be competing with me in my market.

 

Alan,

 

Lat week I was in Brussels and went to my favorite shop, the FNAC. Biggest Book, Cd, DVD etc. shop in BXL. They alway had (note past tense) an extremely good "coffeetable- exotic-countries-etc" department.

 

More than half of the books there were now pano-albums. I had a look at quite a number and found to my dismay that most of them were extremely boring. It seems that 'when it is wide: print it". All mistakes of my past photo club sessions popped up: nightmarish. No story, no eye movement intended, boring subject matter, dull B@W etc.

 

I love panomaking myself ( some here: Sander van Hulsenbeek Blog ), but a market? I am not so sure in the category I described!

[sdai]

These are two different kinds of markets, Sander. While you can sell a bird shot for 50, 100 or maybe 500 dollars, the type of stuff Alan is doing could easily go for 5000, 10000 or more.

[AlanG]

These are two different kinds of markets, Sander. While you can sell a bird shot for 50, 100 or maybe 500 dollars, the type of stuff Alan is doing could easily go for 5000, 10000 or more.

 

Let's hope so, but nobody has seen the images that I'm working on so they may only be worth $.02 in the market. I briefly looked at your panos and they are excellent. But I am not shooting landscapes or anything similar. They are more of a mix between architecture and surrealistic abstraction. That is all I can get into at this point. The target market would probably be corporate offices. That is why I am working with such large files... so I can ultimately sell very large expensive "art installations."

 

I know 2 other shooters who sell images this way in the $5,000+ range. But the economy is very bad right now and I don't think that I'll get much interest at some local companies such as Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. But Washington DC does have more expensive law offices than you can shake a stick at. In my opinion, these images would be perfect in their conference rooms.

 

I decided that after about 30 years as a commercial shooter and faced with a very down market, I should give myself the luxury of doing a project solely for personal satisfaction and expression. If it makes money, that would be nice too.

[jaapv]

You didn't come off that way and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I wouldn't mind trying one out but I don't have any idea where I could do that. If anyone has posted some raw files, I'd like to look at them. But what is also true is that there are numerous features that I have gotten used to that are missing from the DMR.

 

What is often complained about on this forum, has been a lack of a road map from Leica for the R system. Regardless of how good the DMR is, they only made it for a couple of years and then failed to replace it with a new model. That does not give many DSLR shooters outside of the Leica R community any reason to follow the marque at this point. (Other than a curious nut like me.) And it gives current owners doubts about its future and their investment. (Unless they are happy with the DMR or are shooting film.)

 

So Leica may or may not have an R10 at Photokina. But if they do, that will mostly satisfy existing customers. It will take time and a major effort for Leica to re-establish credibility with non Leica pros and prove that they will keep the system updated and vital. Getting pros to switch 35mm systems is not very easy. It took a very long time for Canon to nibble away at Nikon's market share and then they switched a lot of shooters by introducing the 1Ds and 1DII.

 

Unfortunately my concern is that Leica may have a hard time coming up with potential sales figures that would justify the effort required to design, produce, and market a competitive (let alone significantly superior) DSLR system in this environment. Especially when they can simply make a new Noctilux and sell a bunch of them at $11,000!

 

This is certainly true. I fear the only way for Leica to get into the (D)SLR game again is to rely on value-added rebadging initially.

[vanhulsenbeek]

But Washington DC does have more expensive law offices than you can shake a stick at. In my opinion, these images would be perfect in their conference rooms..

 

I can certainly see your pictures there, perfectly printed on large format. 5000$ a shot, and they pay much less than any fancy art on the market. My bet: they'll love it, when you diplomaticaly present the economics

[Veteran]

He who laughs last laughs best!

Quote:

Originally Posted by adan

Behold (with a little screwdriver work to replace the Nikon F mount with an R mount - and perhaps even an M mount) - the R10/S2 from Leica!

 

http://www.sinarcameras.com/file_upl...system2005.jpg

 

Bear in mind Leica signed a big cooperation deal with Jenoptik in June, and Jenoptik owns - Sinar.

 

That’s a red herring.

That’s a red herring.

[mjh]

I fear the only way for Leica to get into the (D)SLR game again is to rely on value-added rebadging initially.

And still, that’s not the way Leica is going to take.

[sdai]

And still, that’s not the way Leica is going to take.

 

I don't think so either ... otherwise, what's the Leitz Park for?

[AlanG]

Sinar M... you might want to read this.

 

Luminous Landscape Forum > sinar m

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[sdai]

It doesn't have to be a copy cat of the sinar m but Leica's modular design could benefit a lot from the concept.

 

Building a system with many interchangeable, fully configurable parts/modules can dramatically bring down the cost as well.

[lct]

He who laughs last laughs best!..Bear in mind Leica signed a big cooperation deal with Jenoptik in June, and Jenoptik owns - Sinar. That’s a red herring.

What am i supposed to do with a $15K MF camera? Why not a large format camera when we are at that? All this MF story reminds me the M5 precedent. Unnecessary so-called improvements w/o customers to buy them. But Leica can do it for sure!