A Kind of Agony

[andalus]

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Just a comment. Respond if you like. I am an avid reader...

 

I have a nice MP, three years old. I have a 50 Lux ASPH, a 135 Telyt APO, a Summicron 28. Nice, nice.

 

I have been a Leica fan and owner since the 1960s. I've even owned an SLII, and many other models at one time or another.

 

I shoot mostly Velvia 100 and occasionally TriX.

 

I have a Nikon Coolscan 5000ED.

 

I have thousands of slides going back to the 80s, all filed nicely. I rather like physical slides.

 

I have lovely Cibachromes printed from my best slides.

 

ALL THIS SAID, I am somewhat seduced by, for example, the Nikon D3. I know it's a brick, but...for the price of my Leica gear I could have a D3 with a nice zoom, never pay another dime for for film or processing it. I could have this D3 and one lens and be done with further equipment ... and still put money in the bank from the Leica gear sale. (Not that I need a couple extra 2k, but you know, anything helps.)

 

I have never used Photoshop nor owned a digital camera

 

I travel often enough from the US. I work part-time in Ha Noi, Vietnam. Where film services are not so great.

 

TO SUM UP, I am often in a complete funk about whether to be done with Leica and just go with the flow, go digital. The M8 it too problematic, especially if it broke in Nam. I'd be afraid to ship it to Solms from there. It's still rather primitive as far as the post/shipping goes. The D3 would probably be fine.

 

Anyway, I don't even know what question I am asking here. I guess I wonder if there are others like me out there who agonize as much as I do about this stuff? Meanwhile, I love the Leica gear, too. It's small size, it's build, it's feel. And I do take nice shots with it, but perhaps the D3 would be even better, especially in low light.

 

So, there you have it. Any others like me and what have you done or what might you plan to do?

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[stunsworth]

You are talking about a camera whose design philosophy is just about as far away from a Leica as it's possible to get. Buy one by all means, but make sure it's really what you want before you spend the money.

[Philip Freedman]

I know how you feel. I have an M8, a Canon 5D and an old M3 and M6, and I have just ordered a Nikon Coolscan 5000 to replace my old Minolta 5400 which has stopped working, I use the 5D for family photos, parties, etc and its digital files are excellent, but I much prefer taking slides or occasionally negatives with my M3 or M6. I really don't enjoy using the M8. Whilst the ability to change ISO at will and the virtually WYSIWYG viewfinder of the DSLR are very convenient, the film Ms are much handier, less conspicuous and much more enjoyable to use, in my view. I think you may regret it if you trade in your MP.

Philip

[delander †]

I have gone in the opposite direction, big Canon to small M8.

 

The Nikon D3 is perhaps the most complex digital camera produced to date. It does have auto modes so you can just point and shoot. If you have never used a digital camera, apart from using it in auto, it is going to be a steep learning curve.

 

There is a lot here about the problems of the M8. I have two and have not had these problems.

 

Best course of action is to try the cameras. The M8 allows you keep using your Leica lenses and is very simple to operate. The 28 and 50 you have are stunning on the M8.

 

Dont underestimate the weight/size of the D3 with a quality zoom lens.

 

It is a difficult choice, influenced also by how you like to take photographs.

 

I would say get a M8 but thats unfair, I am smitten with Leica having had the DSLRs.

 

Good luck,

 

Jeff

[earleygallery]

"I have never used Photoshop nor owned a digital camera"

 

My advice FWIW would be to buy a secondhand digital camera - a small digicam or one of the lower end DSLR's - and try it out.

 

I find digital very different to film, the 'feel' of the camera, the effect it has on the way I work and see images, and of course in the end results.

 

Its not better, or worse, but different. Before you commit to making a sweeping change which you may later regret I would definately suggest that you experiment a little first. If you don't like it you can sell the camera again on e bay probably at no loss.

[imported_peter_m]

 

ALL THIS SAID, .........................never pay another dime for for film or processing it. I

 

 

Instead you will be buying;

Memory Cards,

Portable storage,

External Hard Drives,

Software,

White Balance gizmos,

Printer Ink,

Paper,

and,

and,

......................................

 

 

Peter

[luigi bertolotti]

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You say you are SEDUCED by D3 and so... seduced... a love affair... if you really are in this mood, do not think much and go for high end DSLR ! Love affairs that depend only on buying or not something are easy to master, and, as you say, maybe even with not a NET expense...

Love affairs can always be a delusion, a broken dream... but you can experience this only AFTER you tried...

 

The above is my response based on emotions you can feel towards a certain GEAR... I am faithful to Leica for some more than 25 years... but got in love with MF years ago... Rolleiflex, then Linhof... came back just before succumbing to Hasselblad...

 

The rational response, of course, is much more trivial :

- Do you really want to start digital with a complex DSLR system ?

- Do you really think that with zooms you can get something more from your photo skills ? Zooms, imho, are the essential of SLR... did you experienced them with SLII ?

- You speak of "low light" : digtal or not, low light is definitely a strong point for Leica shooting: I think is undoubious.

 

From the previous post, for me the best advice is to go digital in a softer way, a compact zoomed (PanaLeica... why not) or a not too costly and rather compact DSLR (Ni/Ca/Oly ?) : 3 possible scenarios:

 

a) You do not fall in love with Digital: ok, comeback to your MP... digital is a must ? Well, you do have "some digital gear".

 

You learn to master digital workflow, you definitely realize IT IS the way to go, you regularly take BETTER pics than with MP, you don't miss the MP feel & handling: go for D3 or similar, and you have a decent backup, maybe with the same lens mount...

 

c) You learn to master digital workflow, but MISS the handling of MP... you discover that zoom isn't helping you to take better pics... join the M8 club ! In this timeframe, M8 would have become more and more stable and robust... don't overevaluate the maintenance issue.

 

Needless to say... I'm for the c) option... but that is my personal op...

[underground]

I suggest to keep your MP and fav. lens. sell what you need to get your Nikon.

 

I started with a pentax super program & 50 1.4 when i was in high school. I still use it.

(thats a good f**king camera & lens) bought a cannon 20D with a couple L lenses and love it

Then i bought a M7 and that camera puts everything I have shot with to shame as far as

i am concerned.

 

you need to get your digital, because you have not touched the iron to see if it is hot yet.

you will know if you like it better than anyone here.

[rickp13]

some points to consider to minimize the agony:

 

1) you wrote "for the price of my Leica gear I could have a D3 with a nice zoom". i'm thinking that you can only capitalize on your timeless, high resale value, charismatic (?) leica lenses and camera this one time, then they're gone. the DSLR race with rapid new model introductions is played with a different set of rules

 

2) i changed from a d2x with 12-24, 17-55, 55 macro, 105dc and 70-200VR to an m8 with (relatively) small summilux 35 and 75, and a 12mm voigtlander. i am verrrrrrrrrrrry pleased with the image quality, and like the size and unobtrusive nature of the camera and lenses very much compared to any of the big dslrs.

 

my humble suggestion? make one change at a time, and consider moving to digital first, by adding an m8 to your current gear.

 

good luck

 

rick

[thompsonkirk]

Much less agony if you follow the previous advice to go digital in a softer way!

 

I went digital early on. I'd been shopping for an M6/7 body (with a meter!) to replace my 1971 M4, & my partner came up with the idea of a small digital camera for Christmas. She had no idea what she was getting me into, but the story might be instructive in your circumstances. It represents a kind of 'natural evolution' in the digital era:

 

With Leica print standards in mind, I acquired ever-better digital SLRs: Nikon D100, traded for Canon 20D, traded for 40D, then for 5D, which ended up being just too much of a pain to drag around. (And note that it's much smaller & lighter than the D3 you're considering.)

 

I tried going back to an M6, but something had happened in the meantime that you can't be anticipating when you express preference for Velvia & Cibachromes: I'd fallen in love with the gentler palette of inkjet pigment prints.

 

Then a friend invited me to take her to lunch & try her new M8 - & warned me it might be an expensive meal. Indeed the only $6K lunch I've ever eaten.

 

When I bought an M8 - despite everything I'd heard about its crankiness & everything I've subsequently experienced - I felt like I was holding a CAMERA again, not packing a heavy chunk of military-grade technology. So my personal solution is to keep the 5D as a backup in a closet. It comes out only for events, where zoom & fill-flash are useful despite their clumsiness. It's never missed at other times.

 

That's the story of a full circle. I'm not recommending my own solution to you, just the story. You too might end up going full circle. But here are a few suggestions:

 

1. For now: As above, softer digital entry, but with a good Canon or Nikon DSLR of 10 MP or so, & not full frame (unless you're a weightlifter). -- Possible exception: a used 5D, which is a good camera & might be cheap to try, now that a replacement is expected soon. Regard this as a see-how-it-feels camera, not the digital machine you'll end up with. They change too fast.

 

2. Also for now: Keep your film Leica so you don't make a mistake about that. Or at least don't sell your 28 & 50mm lenses yet.

 

3. Later:

 

3a: If you really like working with DSLRs, sell your Leica gear & buy the state-of-the-art.

 

3b: If you don't prefer DSLRs & now have an adequate backup (either the film MP or a modest DSLR above), then an M8 is really not so risky. There's a learning curve, but much of it can be eased through serious reading here & on the Reid Reviews Internet site.

 

4. Also later: If you do decide to sell the MP, hang on somewhat longer to your 28 & 50mm lenses for later use on your M8 or M8-2 or M9 (assuming your 28 & 50 are new enough to be codable - do a search on this site). I'm pretty sure that with 45 years of experience, you'll end up back in M-land when the time comes. And IMO replacing good old Leitz/Leica lenses now with new ones would be seriously unproductive, because even the cheaper new ones cost too much & tend to be too contrasty. The 135 won't be very useful with a 1.33 sensor, so let that go - or keep it for use on your beloved old film MP.

 

Kirk

[andalus]

Thanks all for all the very thoughtful replies to my "agony". It is very helpful and much appreciated. This week I think I stumbled across a solution: Keep the MP and lenses and to get a feel for digital, buy for 500 bucks or so the Canon G 9, which shoots "raw", too! This seems to be a nice little camera, sizewise like the MP.... If any out there have tried the G9, let me know what you think. Or tried the G9 in combo with retaining Leica film gear.

[ron110n]

Keep the MP and lenses and to get a feel for digital, buy for 500 bucks or so the Canon G 9, which shoots "raw", too!

 

It's a smart decision and "plenty of bang for your buck". The G9 is next thing to a 12mp and more compact Digilux 2. And like a D2 it has soul in the image, then like a D2 "forget the bokeh". =) The looks often get mistaken for a classic Film Point & Shoot camera. I bought a leather ever-ready case from eBay. Today my chinese after-market 58mm filter-tube (adapter) arrived.

 

My personal digital snap capacity is about 20 snaps a month and limited to colored. We're talking about my D2, G9, Panaleica L1 and LX1 all together. Truthfully, I am not very good post processing digital B&W to equal my film B&W images. Otherwise my predomonat snaps are B&W 35mm form my M3, M6, M7, F3, F5 and 6x6 Rolleiflex 6008i and FX. With all the money you saved, maybe it's time to add a Hassy or Rollei with a Nikon 9000 ED to your collection. ISO 3200 is peice of cake and very forgiving to shoot. =)

 

Best,

-Ron

[stephan_w]

When you want to go digital, then buy a M8, it is one of the best digital cameras you can get and you already have the lenses for it. And you can keep your camera for backup, so what?

 

This D3-hype will end soon. Finally it's just a professional camera for a very, very specific use. Do you need that? Probably not. You don't drive with a truck to go shopping. It has to much disadvantages in everyday-use.

 

And no, you will not make it with just one lens. You will need at least three good zooms, that all cost as much as the camera itself. And if you want pictures without distortions, then you have to add some primes too.

 

Nikon offers with no doubt nice and tempting cameras, I have some of them. But not the D3, unless you are a professional.

 

Just my 2 cents

[spylaw4]

I would tentatively suggest that forking out the money on an M8 without knowing if you will adapt easily and, more importantly, like the digital results is a little extreme. Perhaps you could start by getting a 2nd hand Digilux 2 (with the repaired sensor) and working with that for a while.

[DTD]

Just to chuck something else in…

How about a neg scanner – you can learn everything about the post processing side of digital.

[andybarton]

<SNIP>

I shoot mostly Velvia 100 and occasionally TriX.

 

I have a Nikon Coolscan 5000ED.

 

<SNIP>

 

I have never used Photoshop nor owned a digital camera

 

<SNIP>

 

That's a real acheivement - to scan slides and Tri-X and not use Photoshop. Do you use an alternative editor?

 

If not, please share your tips!

[stunsworth]

Why not get a low end Nikon digital SLR to see if you like the digital way of working? If you do t,hen buy the D3, if you don't sell the SLR and move on.

 

Provided you didn't buy any of the lenses that can only be used on APS sensor DSLRs you'd be able to use them if you decided to go for the D3 in the future.

[stunsworth]

How about a neg scanner – you can learn everything about the post processing side of digital.

 

The original poster already has a Nikon.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[earleygallery]

Thanks all for all the very thoughtful replies to my "agony". It is very helpful and much appreciated. This week I think I stumbled across a solution: Keep the MP and lenses and to get a feel for digital, buy for 500 bucks or so the Canon G 9, which shoots "raw", too! This seems to be a nice little camera, sizewise like the MP.... If any out there have tried the G9, let me know what you think. Or tried the G9 in combo with retaining Leica film gear.

 

As I suggested above, maybe a DSLR would be better given that you are ultimately thinking of a D3. You not only need to see if you like digital but also if using a DSLR instead of a rangefinder will suit you best.

 

That said a G9 would be a useful camera to have whatever. Or if you can live with 4MP how about a Leica D1?

[ndjambrose]

An interesting problem. Like Vieri above, I am moving in the opposite direction from you.

 

I was an early digital adopter and over the years made quite an investment in digital cameras, computers, storage, software. I have had a succession of DSLRs and even now my current equipment includes an M8 and a digital Hasselblad.

 

But the camera I rely on the most is my MP. Irrespective of the tools at my disposal, some of my best work has been made with the simple combination of Noctilux, MP and a roll of HP5.

 

Digital is different, but don't assume that it's necessarily a panacea. In fact, for someone with no prior experience, the learning curve can be quite steep and frequently the results rather poor. I'd echo the advice about getting some experience with a low cost DSLR before you sell everything to buy the flagship.