Guest Ridder Cornelius Posted March 10, 2008 Share #101 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) As for the charger and battery...... when the charger/battery combination says Full it only implies 80% not the full 100% ..... it needs another 3 hours or so to fully fill up. The reason for doing this is that the battery can only handle a limited number of full chargers before it becomes weaker. Â This is actual a note form the Leica salesman, the one whom sold me the M8. Â It has something to do with the battery type.... which I forgot what it exactly was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 10, 2008 Share #102 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Â it's called taking ones hobby to the limits :-) Â Â That is what it is - I take it into circumstances where the nearest telephone is a light aircraft flight away - better be self-sufficient. And better make sure those many thousands of Euros spent on the trip are not the only memory one has.... A few batteries are not a hefty insurance policy to pay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ridder Cornelius Posted March 10, 2008 Share #103 Â Posted March 10, 2008 anyway all these discussions have led me to having ordered another 2 batteries, I will just do with the one charger though. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 10, 2008 Share #104 Â Posted March 10, 2008 I have a number of el-cheapo ones. No big investment and an excellent backup in dire need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ridder Cornelius Posted March 10, 2008 Share #105 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Jaap you are right of course, but me just being a point and shoot imagetaker and one use to fully manual M4's don't think of that. I have to get use to knowing that my M8 is fully dependant upon batteries.... quite a step up from not even having used even a cell battery for the past 20 years or so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ridder Cornelius Posted March 10, 2008 Share #106 Â Posted March 10, 2008 There are cheaper ones too .... now you tell me..... I was actually quit shocked by the price of a single M8 battery, I hope it has the Red Dot on it ! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinboy24 Posted March 10, 2008 Share #107  Posted March 10, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm fascinated by how faulty everyone's belongings are. Judging by people here who carry 2 camera bodies, 2 chargers(!), 5 batteries, 8 SD cards and whose lives still seem to be filled with malfunctioning gadgets - well now I realize I have a charmed life.  It doesn't help that I'm a bit paranoid too. I had to convince myself when travelling to Costa Rica to not bring my 20D as a backup camera and instead bring 3 batteries hoping that the only issue I'd face is running out of batteries and not any more fatal. All the equipment I have is top notch, but "you never know". The iPod is just a power sucker and I've had times when the battery completely drains (more like a short circuit) when playing a corrupt song or movie. The travel charger is to ensure that I can make any long flight or car ride to keep myself entertained if I'm not reading a book.  But back on topic, I will want to try draining my battery trick.  I did purchase my M8 as a demo model which may mean that the original battery was used continuously and not initially charged properly, but I purchased a spare battery which was brand new. I'm unsure if this problem occurred in both batteries and don't know if that is a factor in this issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ridder Cornelius Posted March 10, 2008 Share #108 Â Posted March 10, 2008 I also recall having got the advice not to fully drain the batteries on a constant basis for this would not be good for, well some reason which I forgot..... I wasn't paying much interest at the time continuously fondling my "Anabel" in the camera shop .... (Anabel being my M8!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted March 10, 2008 Share #109  Posted March 10, 2008 Otherwise, what you are effectively saying is that those of us who successfully use the camera all the time--and in arguably more strenuous condition than a studio--are just deluded.  Hi Jamie  I don't see where I was saying this at all, I'm afraid.  I was alluding in my post to the guy that said it was better to jump all over any 'faulty camera' threads with the statement that 'my M8 is fine' as a counterbalance addressed to anyone who was reading the forum and possibly wavering over whether to buy the camera themselves.  The fact that Andy's camera stopped working at a critical moment doesn't invalidate your experience. But contrary to what a lot of the zealots seem to imply, the fact that their cameras continue to work does not invalidate his misfortune either.  I know I'm interfering here in 'other people's business', but I hope I'm not just 'stirring the pot'. I just feel the forum needs to be kept honest, to be frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 10, 2008 Share #110  Posted March 10, 2008 @Guy I sent the camera back this morning and am planning to be in Solms Friday to 'see with my own eyes' what the cause is/was  keep you posted  andy  I think a good move Andy , something just seems off. After all this time with the M8 i pretty much seen it all or heard about it through Leica or forum members. But hitting the buffer that fast and dying just seems there is a disconnect there. let's hope they find a solution for you than decide later what to do about selling it. The M8 is not for everyone and sometimes as a Pro that relies very heavily on it I just have to protect myself just like with any system. But we all need to remember these batteries are small and don't have very long lasting charge to them. The most i ever get out of a battery is 300 shots and that is a push. I do highly recommend a extra battery or two since the camera is so dependent of power. We are just dealing in a electronic world and we need to be very aware of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted March 10, 2008 Share #111 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Batteries need to be deep cycled every so often, it is just the nature of them. This seems to be particularly the case with the M8 batteries so I think Leica owes us a new charger. Â It should have a "Calibrate" setting like the charger for my D3. Batteries also lose charge over time if not used, like say if you had 8 batteries with a number of them as backups. Â As far as the M8 hitting the buffer quick, lets face it, no Leica is a D3 or MK-III. I hit the buffer after 36 shots with my M6 and it takes a good minute or more to clear it ( load new film ). But....it should not be locking the camera up as a means of saying you are overloading it. The M8 should not overload, it should slow down, keep blinking until it is clear, but not lock up. Â I think what people on don't realize is that Leica gets a lot of feedback from pros who will never frequent a forum like this. So yes, if you have an issue, you should not just chalk it up to fate and stay quiet, but don't assume that what is written on this forum is any kind of benchmark because it is not. Â If my M8 were so bad, I would have sold it months ago. The AWB is really good now, the mad scrolling seems to have stopped, the files are great. But I still get occasional lockups for a host of reasons. Not all the time, but enough that I just don't use the M8 like I would any other camera. I am considerate that it is temperamental and will most likely always be that way. Â I think for all intents and purposes, the M8 is 85% done as far as engineering and Q&A goes. It came out too soon. The IR issues are perhaps one of the biggest blunders in camera manufacturing history...how could they not see that?. Â I just wish that instead of Leica offering lackluster upgrades that actually should be standard, they instead would offer some kind of proof that the more serious issues are being addressed in full fashion. Â The M8 is an opportunity for Leica to regain a good image with consumers and pros alike, but they HAVE to act on these issues in a manner that is well beyond what we have seen here. Â If they do not, I am afraid not only will there not be a M9, but there might not be a Leica camera division either in a few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted March 10, 2008 Share #112  Posted March 10, 2008 Eoin, I did not realize that the point of draining the battery in-camera was to calibrate the body and battery to one another. I figured the point was to reset something internal to the battery. Are you sure this is the fact Eoin? If so, does it imply that someone with two bodies must keep of track of which battery was drained in which body, and only use batteries with the appropriate body? My current practice is to use the first battery I grab in whatever body needs it.   IIRC there were some questions sent from this forum to Leica for clarification, the answers were posted on the Leica web site and have since disappeared. One of the questions was about the bar graph in the battery meter showing 3 or 2 bars before the battery would go flat. Leica recommended draining the removable battery in the M8 by disabling the LCD timer leaving the screen on overnight to discharge fully. They called it calibrating the battery. Then recharge the battery and you should be good to go. I don't know if it's a problem to mix batteries between M8's or not.  Perhaps Guy Mancuso can chime in here with a link to the original answer from Leica if he still has a copy...... or perhaps I was just dreaming this one night and now I think it's fact :D  There is another operation in which the internal backup battery needs to be discharged, this is a completely different matter all together, I'm talking about draining the rechargeable battery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 10, 2008 Share #113 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Yes Eoin and i do remember Leica telling me about the deep recycle set up. It may even be posted on the Leica web site in the FAQ's . But from memory the battery indicator can be off on the camera and Leica recommended a complete drain of the battery , turn the camera on and set the menu option to not turn off and leave it overnight to completely drain the battery down than recharge and it should clear the indicator to read correctly. Â Â Need to find that thread. Â But what really should be done IMHO is have the charger do this instead. And many camera's that I owned the charger had a deep recycle button on them. It would drain the battery than recharge it. I like this idea much better myself. i like to keep the camera out of this situation and let the charger do it. We do need a new charger one that is smaller of course but also has a button for recycle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rweisz Posted March 10, 2008 Share #114 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Â It should have a "Calibrate" setting like the charger for my D3. Batteries also lose charge over time if not used, like say if you had 8 batteries with a number of them as backups. Â Â I don't know about the D3 because I'm Canon these days, but they take NiMH battery packs which have different characteristics than LiION batteries used in the 20-30-40-5D and Nikon's 100-200-300 series, and also the M8. For one thing, LiION batteries start to lose there capacity the moment they leave the factory. You can't for example buy a spare battery and keep it in its box expecting to use it in 3-4 years, it won't take a full charge by then. I know NiMH packs are recommended to discharge before recharging, as they have less of memory affect than NiCAD's but still have some memory affect. LiION's are supposed to have no memory affect so they can be topped off without discharging. Camera store salesmen and manufacturer reps I've found have a lot of misinformation concerning batteries which of course they dispense to customers with typical salesmanship. Here is a link to an informed article I found worthwhile: http://www.buchmann.ca/article23-page1.asp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 10, 2008 Share #115  Posted March 10, 2008 Yes Eoin and i do remember Leica telling me about the deep recycle set up. It may even be posted on the Leica web site in the FAQ's . But from memory the battery indicator can be off on the camera and Leica recommended a complete drain of the battery , turn the camera on and set the menu option to not turn off and leave it overnight to completely drain the battery down than recharge and it should clear the indicator to read correctly.  Need to find that thread.  But what really should be done IMHO is have the charger do this instead. And many camera's that I owned the charger had a deep recycle button on them. It would drain the battery than recharge it. I like this idea much better myself. i like to keep the camera out of this situation and let the charger do it. We do need a new charger one that is smaller of course but also has a button for recycle.  The strange thing is, my skiing boots heaters have a virtually identical Ansmann charger, even the adapter plugs are the same and that one has a discharge facility. So it is not as if it is not available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 10, 2008 Share #116 Â Posted March 10, 2008 There are cheaper ones too .... now you tell me..... I was actually quit shocked by the price of a single M8 battery, I hope it has the Red Dot on it ! :-) Â 5 Euro a piece- nearly indistinguishable from the real thing. Google for e-bay. I would certainly not recommend them for regular use -one never knows-, but as some spares kicking around in the bottom of your case they are fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 10, 2008 Share #117 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Trying to remember but I think my Canon 1ds had this feature and also my Kodak 760 but my memory just stinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted March 10, 2008 Share #118 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Having the camera do time cosuming re-calibration is not a good solution for those on assignment or in most professional cases. I can give a host of cases where this would cause logistical problems for a traveling pro. Deep cycling should be a feature in the charger. Also, given the inherent temperamental nature of the M8 as it is, I don't think it is very wise to subject the camera to anymore wear than it already goes through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 10, 2008 Share #119 Â Posted March 10, 2008 I agree completely . It also ties up the camera , that is not good if you have to shoot with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 10, 2008 Share #120 Â Posted March 10, 2008 Also agree on the charger doing deep-recycling (and how about some contact diagnostics? How hard could that be?). The Canon 1 series does have this on their chargers--a "fast drain" mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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