lxlim Posted March 4, 2008 Share #61 Posted March 4, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm one of the fortunate few where my professional work has a distinct categorization of Digital Rangefinder and Digital SLR. Each type of camera being used where it is best at. More importantly, economically feasible to do so. Hopefully I will continue to get work that requires the rangefinder. So its not a question of image quality but rangefinder vs SLR for myself and the M8 is a wonderful camera. I got a Ricoh GRDII for family shots but now my wife looks disappointed whenever I decide to bring it. The M8 gets the silent vote every time for its sheer quality. At 1250, it is still better than my GRDII. So the M8 has grown beyond a business necessity and become a family camera. Of course, my leica lenses get left behind and my CVs come into family play. My DSLRs do not get ignored, too much of my work cannot be comfortably done with the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 4, 2008 Posted March 4, 2008 Hi lxlim, Take a look here Leica M8 - Would you buy it now?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
fotografr Posted March 4, 2008 Share #62 Posted March 4, 2008 I hope some of the comments in this thread are being seen by Herr Kaufmann because there seems to be a concensus that people hold high regard for the M8 but feel the current price is too high. As much as I love mine (I carry it everywhere) I will not purchase one for $5500. When Nikon and Canon models have been on the market for a year or so, prices are dropped, not increased. Of all the mistakes Steven Lee made leading to his dismissal, this may have been his biggest. If sales of the M8 have hit a wall, I strongly suspect the high price is more to blame than fears about the reliability. If Leica had dropped the price from the initial $4795 down to even $4500, I'd have bought another M8 in a heartbeat. At the current price, I'll pass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_sanderva Posted March 4, 2008 Share #63 Posted March 4, 2008 It´s been a year since I bought the M8 and I have no regrets at all. It´s my favourite digital camera. Same with me. And since I put a CV15 on it, it is a great walk-around-combo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted March 4, 2008 Share #64 Posted March 4, 2008 None of us will probably ever know if the increase was Lee's doing or not, it seems to me it's mostly a matter of a wimpy U.S. dollar, but I agree the price is just way too high, especially if you add the upgrades. If I were to buy a second M8 I would probably look for a refurbished one with a warranty, or a used one on E-bay. I do so love the camera. BTW, any journalists in the house who can track down and interview Lee for the forum? Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted March 4, 2008 Share #65 Posted March 4, 2008 I hope some of the comments in this thread are being seen by Herr Kaufmann because there seems to be a concensus that people hold high regard for the M8 but feel the current price is too high. As much as I love mine (I carry it everywhere) I will not purchase one for $5500. When Nikon and Canon models have been on the market for a year or so, prices are dropped, not increased. Of all the mistakes Steven Lee made leading to his dismissal, this may have been his biggest. If sales of the M8 have hit a wall, I strongly suspect the high price is more to blame than fears about the reliability. If Leica had dropped the price from the initial $4795 down to even $4500, I'd have bought another M8 in a heartbeat. At the current price, I'll pass. I agree with this sentiment entirely. I love my M8, quirks and all. The initial price was pretty much the top end of what I could afford--and that was a stretch--but I've been a longtime Leica shooter (well, not as long as some people on the forum, but nearly 10 years now) and wanted a digital rangefinder to simplify my workflow. If I was making that decision now, I would probably stick my Nikon DSLR for professional work when digital was required/desirable and stuck with scanning film and my M6 for everything else. The new price solidly places another M8 out of my reach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_mcdermott Posted March 4, 2008 Share #66 Posted March 4, 2008 If I were to buy a second M8 I would probably look for a refurbished one with a warranty, or a used one on E-bay. I do so love the camera.Benitez-Rivera Photography That would be the only route I could take as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gIzzE Posted March 4, 2008 Share #67 Posted March 4, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think Leica know that the current price is too much. The UK price went from £2900 to £3400, but most dealers are offering them at the old price still, and Leica are about to launch a cashback offer in the UK of £500 when purchased with a Lens, either the Summarits or the 28/2.0 or 75/2.0, which starts next week I believe. Most companies would annouce the Crystal Glass upgrade as a new feature, along with the quieter shutter, to make the unit seem more attractive, I agree bumping up the retail price by $1000 and then telling people they can get the upgrade for €1200 seems a bit of a weird decision. If they had said loyal customers can have the upgrade for $500 to cover parts I think it would go a long way for customer relations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_reinierv Posted March 4, 2008 Share #68 Posted March 4, 2008 When Nikon and Canon models have been on the market for a year or so, prices are dropped, not increased. It has all to do with the fall of the dollar... Being a european camera the shops have to pay more to buy the camera so you as end-user will also pay more... Japanese kamera's have the problem less, because they probably have been payed from with dollars starting at production... Actually, as noted before, the M8 in the US is still a bargain if we europeans travel to the US to buy one. Should be about 6000-6500 dollar So if you want the M8 price to drop in the US, then get the US financials in order and have the dollar rise again...So don't blame Leica... Actually at this moment you can get serious discounts in NY if you pay with euro's instead of dollars that is quite shocking. American shops preferring euro's over dollars...we were used of these things in 3th world countries, shops preffering dollars over local currencies. Say 5 years ago when you wanted to pay in euro's in the US, you had to pay a serious conversion fee, now you get discount.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rweisz Posted March 4, 2008 Share #69 Posted March 4, 2008 The difference between $4795 and $5495 is $700, on a camera that was $4795 to start with. So if that difference is the straw that brakes the camel's back money-wise I would have to admit to myself I had no business buying it at $4795. But all that said, I agree that sensibility-wise the fact that it has gotten more expensive when all other digital cameras get less expensive over time and I won't be buying M8 #2 except maybe as a demo. I've heard the "reasoning", the falling dollar vs euro. Boo hoo, I'd love to help Leica out so they don't have to deal with global economics like the rest of the companies in the world, but I don't want a second M8 bad enough to pay $5500 for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gIzzE Posted March 4, 2008 Share #70 Posted March 4, 2008 The difference between $4795 and $5495 is $700, on a camera that was $4795 to start with. So if that difference is the straw that brakes the camel's back money-wise I would have to admit to myself I had no business buying it at $4795. haha, that is probably true, but then again if you want a digital rangefinder you have no choice, so you had to stump up $4800, which let's be honest here, was top dollar in 2006, in 2008 as tech moves on and with an announment to be made probably before the end of teh year about an upgrade or M9 putting the price up would not make sense for any other company apart from Leica. But it does something no other camera offers, so you have no chocie but to pay the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 4, 2008 Share #71 Posted March 4, 2008 It has all to do with the fall of the dollar... I don't agree. Nikon and Canon have been doing this since I bought my first digital SLR in 1999. My first Nikon D1 was nearly $5,000. A year later, the same camera was under $4,000. Two years later, it was under $3,000. That was when the dollar was fairly strong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gIzzE Posted March 4, 2008 Share #72 Posted March 4, 2008 Yeah the Canon 5D was released at $3499 I think it was, has dropped down since and now the rrp is $2199. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_reinierv Posted March 4, 2008 Share #73 Posted March 4, 2008 correct, but as Canon/Nikon etc are in production already paid in dollars, an drop of the dollar will not impact the US price (Actually they drop in price in europe should be more significant but as you all know, big companies are quick to increase price and slow to lower it). And they can benefit from production improvements etc in time. Also they will always start high to quickly earn back initial cost and pay for the huge campain to hype the camera. The M8 in europe is now around 4500-4700, so still in the US its a bargain but I hope they keep rising the price, better chance I get a good price for it if I ever decide to sell it again (will take some years I guess) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted March 4, 2008 Share #74 Posted March 4, 2008 This is rubbish about the "wimpy dollar". As I've stated before (probably a million times actually), the price was heftily raised here in Sweden at the same time as the rest of the world, and now stands at the equivalent of $7,707.49 according to current exchange rates. btw: I'm surprised to see that dealers in the UK are still offering the camera at the old price. Unfortunately that competitive spirit is totally absent here. :-( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted March 4, 2008 Share #75 Posted March 4, 2008 As the conversation has moved from would you want an M8 now to would you pay it's current cost, I'll add that my second body cost me $3800, with 1 1/2 years left on it's original warranty. This included a handgrip and 2 filters. Now this was an exceptionally good deal, but I would only have paid a few hundred more, and definitely not the $5500 for a second new one. Also, my original M8 was bought at it's release price of about $4500. All to say that I agree with the popular sentiment- it's a great camera, but overpriced. And in making a hard decision for professional use, where one needs a backup camera, I probably would not jump into the system now at all. I made the commitment to use the M8 for pro jobs that I might have been tempted to get a D3 for using my D2Hs as backup/second camera. I did this because slightly used or refurbed M8s are more affordable, but also because I was able to get an excellent collection of Leica lenses before the crazy run up up prices in the past year. Factoring the current lens prices, including used ones I don't think I would choose the M8 system now. For instance, I paid $1800 for a 35 lux asph, $2500 for a noctilux (both mint, uncoded, then coded with vouchers for free). best....Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrycioni Posted March 4, 2008 Share #76 Posted March 4, 2008 The subject of cost is interesting - because in countries outside the US the M8 has been typically more inline with the value of the US dollar, such is not the case these days. My first M8 was $5500CDN plus GST and PST which at the time was an additional 13%. The same M8 in the US at the time was $4750. If I could have purchased the M8 in the US I would have and still save money. Because of a strong US dollar against the CDN dollar I know of at least one Canadian dealer who sold their initial M8 stock to US buyers. At this point in time $5500US and $5500CDN are about the same value and my guess is this is all related to the EURO versus the US and CDN dollar, but who knows what really drives Leica pricing, etc. Cheers. Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gIzzE Posted March 4, 2008 Share #77 Posted March 4, 2008 I guess it is like every other product, they place that product at a price point that they think the makret will swallow, nothing more than that. Look at the car market, take the new BMW M3 as an example, £52k in the UK and $56k in the States. The US guys were going mad when they thought it may have been over $60k, and I am sure BMW were watching this and thought better of it. The market itself dictates the price 9 times out of 10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted March 4, 2008 Share #78 Posted March 4, 2008 <...> Most companies would annouce the Crystal Glass upgrade as a new feature, along with the quieter shutter, to make the unit seem more attractive, I agree bumping up the retail price by $1000 and then telling people they can get the upgrade for €1200 seems a bit of a weird decision. If they had said loyal customers can have the upgrade for $500 to cover parts I think it would go a long way for customer relations. I predict that this represents a reasonably accurate forecast. The U.S. consumer economy is in a deep, and probably prolonged, valley. Fifty-five hundred dollar retro camera trinkets are suddenly not very attractive to people who are worried about keeping their jobs and homes. (I seriously doubt that the $1000+ price increase during the past year had any origins in inter-currency valuations.) So I suspect that if Leica wants to try to maintain that breathtaking $5,500 price they will certainly be forced to at least] incorporate the "upgrade" features into new units. Leica can then try to sell the "upgrade" to existing owners, although by August I suspect that their prospects on this initiative will have shriveled considerably. Dropping the price of that program, perhaps to $500, and outsourcing it to a less socialized labor market would make sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 4, 2008 Share #79 Posted March 4, 2008 Problem - $ 5500, equals slightly under 3900 Euro, which is only slightly more than an M7- and a whole lot less than an M8 in Europe. I can hardly imagine that Leica is making any profit on each camera sold in the Dollar zone at this price point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rweisz Posted March 4, 2008 Share #80 Posted March 4, 2008 Problem - $ 5500, equals slightly under 3900 Euro, which is only slightly more than an M7- and a whole lot less than an M8 in Europe. I can hardly imagine that Leica is making any profit on each camera sold in the Dollar zone at this price point. To accurately compare European vs American price, what is the European price of an M8 minus all the taxes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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