hahn73 Posted January 28, 2008 Share #1 Posted January 28, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I suppose my questions regarding this topic extends beyond just M8 users, but since I have one, I'm curious as to what other users like. And if someone is very knowledgeable about color accuracy, I'd be interested in being educated. I'm in the middle of debating whether to get the new 30" Dell WFP3008 retailing at $1999, or to drop more to get one of the smaller sized Eizo's which allegedly have far more accurate colors. I'm a little confused as to how color accuracy is determined. The new Dell claims a 117% color gamut (though I'm not sure how to interpret that since I don't see anywhere it says that it's the sRGB or Adobe RGB gamut). Is that the determinant for color accuracy or is just one of the factors in color accuracy. And if it's just one, what are the other determinants? Also, what's more important to you in your photo work, the increase in size from 24" to 30", or the increase in color accuracy from Dell's, Apple's, HP's to Eizo's, NEC's, and LaCie's I'm only going by reputation. If real world differences in color accuracy are not that great in your experience, please say so. Also, can the color accuracy of the more mainstream monitors be improved to the level of the optimized monitors through calibration hardware/software? Or is there some kind of hardware limitation? (I keep reading about 12 bit and 14 bit lookup tables, but don't fully understand what that means.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Hi hahn73, Take a look here Best LCD monitor for digital photography?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chris_tribble Posted January 28, 2008 Share #2 Posted January 28, 2008 As a cost effective, space saving solution I've found a 19" Lacie 319 + the EyeOne calibrator absolutely fine. If money's no object, some I know swear by Eizo. In the UK the Eizo CG221 costs nearly as much as an M8! The Lacie 19 is now replaced by a 20" at £739 including vat. Could be a good compromise. No idea on prices on the States. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venkman Posted January 28, 2008 Share #3 Posted January 28, 2008 A lookup table is exactly that - a table where for every digital coded color information a "translation" into displayed color is held. A 1 bit lookup table would be "on/off" - which is basically b/w. The higher the value (and the bit actually only describe the max amount of "table fields" which connect color value to displayed color) the finer the differences in displayed color. That's the theory, of course the display needs to match that color range. As for sizes and recommendations: The 30'' Dells require dual head graphics adapter to reach that resolution. They are not really great colorwise and lack (AFAIK) on screen menues to switch luminance, etc. The big advantage is the really nice resolution. My recommendation would be to aim for Eizo, which are the best in gamut (at least on the lab models), but also the most costly solution. If that is not an option, I personally can recommend NEC WUXi series, where the color space is almost Adobe-RGB and the monitor itself is close to the pro-version Spectraview. All of that is of course futile, if your overall setup is not calibrated/profiled/optimized - if that is the case, go for size. Dirk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Ortego Posted January 28, 2008 Share #4 Posted January 28, 2008 The latest organic diode technology panels will be available very soon. I plan on waiting to see what pops out from Apple, Sony, ViewSonic and Eizo. Personally, I have a sneaky suspicion that Apple plans on something very cool. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted January 28, 2008 Share #5 Posted January 28, 2008 NEC 2090 EIZO (highend models, but check the viewing angle...) Believe it or not the current Apple Cinema Display is very good. Sony Artisan CRT (one can dream...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert4321 Posted January 28, 2008 Share #6 Posted January 28, 2008 I just got the Dell 27" monitor and it seems fine out of the box. I calibrated it with Eye one display II and pertty happy with it since I don't have anything to compare with. I have been using the Dell 20" wide screen and pretty happy with it also. Your graphi card will have a factor as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted January 28, 2008 Share #7 Posted January 28, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sony Artisan CRT (one can dream...) I believe the Sony Artisan is out of production - they are excellent monitors though. We have two in the office. I've been working on an Eizo CE240W for a bit of time now and using a MacBeth Eye One management system. It's a great monitor as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venkman Posted January 28, 2008 Share #8 Posted January 28, 2008 Your graphi card will have a factor as well. Actually, no, it won't, unless it does not support the native resolution or dual head in case of a 30'' display. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted January 28, 2008 Share #9 Posted January 28, 2008 Your graphic card will have a factor as well. I'm in the same boat looking to buy a new monitor. What about graphics cards? I don't mean to thread hijack, but do I need to consider the card and display simultaneously? I have a color managed work flow now and am wondering if there are graphics card considerations that I haven't anticipated. Not being a gamer, just doing still photography, I figured it wouldn't make so big a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted January 28, 2008 Share #10 Posted January 28, 2008 Not being a gamer, just doing still photography... I researched this a lot recently, when I purchased a new Dell 24". The consensus seems to be that for 2D applications just about any decent video card offered in the last two or three years is fine. I stuck with my nVidia 6600. I calibrate with EyeOne Display, and it works fine. Do others use multiple monitors? That's probably something to consider in card selection. My card has two DVI ports. When I got the 24" I kept the 21" and started using dual monitors. I like it so much that I have since found a matching video card on ebay and have added a third monitor. I love all this space. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 28, 2008 Share #11 Posted January 28, 2008 I use the Eizo 30" which has one dual link input for 2560 * 1600 and a single link input for my laptops which will display either letter box or enlarge to fill the space. Some of the other 30" displays do not do well on anything other than their native resolution. Calibrates fine with an Eye-One, though for best colour fidelity, you need to control your ambient lighting as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venkman Posted January 28, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 28, 2008 The consensus seems to be that for 2D applications just about any decent video card offered in the last two or three years is fine. I stuck with my nVidia 6600. That is correct, video cards are not a factor. They all can deliver way more color than a normal display can show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted January 28, 2008 Share #13 Posted January 28, 2008 I've been using the dell 30" for about a year; mostly for my daily bread design/cad/business work and what photowork I do. a very nice monitor. I needed the Nividia Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI board (PCI Express bus) to handle the display bandwith. Just last week I purchased the Eizo CG241W, a 24" widescreen, and plugged it into the second DVI port of the Nividia as a second monitor. Calibrated it with the Spyder and Eizo software. extremely nice for photo work. having two monitors is nice as you can max out the image on the Eizo and move the menus, etc to the Dell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chkphoto Posted January 29, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 29, 2008 Be aware - one video card = one monitor calibration profile assigned to one monitor. Even though you have a video card that can send out signal to two monitors only one of the monitors can be the calibrated one. The second monitor, only uses the loaded profile but is not truly calibrated as you can only try to match it visually/manually against the calibrated monitor. From the Spyder Manual Multiple Monitors Computers using the Windows operating system with multiple monitors need to have a separate video card for each monitor. A multi-head video card (a single card that drives two or more monitors) will not work correctly. Each monitor must have its own profile, created specifically for that monitor, associated with it. Associating different profiles to monitors attached using a multi-head video card is not possible on Windows. I don't know how it works for Mac or if there is video card that can hold two separate calibrations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahn73 Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share #15 Posted January 29, 2008 Is the color gamut limitation due to limitations in the lookup table, or is it due to limitations in the backlighting, or is it due to the LCD pixels themselves? That is to say, when Dell claims to have a 117% color gamut, what did they change to expand the gamut? The panel itself? An increase in the LUT (that doesn't seem to be a foregone conclusion in discussions I was able to find)? Here's the big question: The color gamut of the monitor and the number of bits in the LUT - are they related or independent to each other??? And when Eizo monitor like the 221 claims to do 16 bit processing (I'm assuming this is the same thing as saying the LUT is 16 bits?) is it able to do that because it uses a special panel that can do it, or can they use the same panel that is used in another monitor (say a dell), but by merely using a higher bit processing engine, they are able to produce more accurate color and gradients from it? If so, how does the backlight affect the color accuracy? I don't recall any monitors coming out with LED backlighting yet, but allegedly that produces more accurate "color". Grr..I am massively confused, and many Google searches do not help clear up my questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfarkas Posted January 29, 2008 Share #16 Posted January 29, 2008 Eizo monitors are hardware calibrated. This means that when you do a calibration with an EyeOne, the Eizo ColorNavigator software communicates directly with the monitor and populates the the LUT (look up table) accordingly. This is far more accurate and allows for more precise color mapping vs. software/OS/video card calibration. In the Eizo cal, the signals from the computer are unchanged (but a monitor profile is loaded for color management purposes). The monitor itself is changed in relation to the signals from the OS/video card. CE models have a 10-bit LUT and CG models have a 12-bit LUT. The other spec is precision. On the CE it is 14-bit and on the CG it is 16-bit. This is not a measure of the LUT, but rather the precision of the mapping calculations. Other features of the Eizo: brightness uniformity and consistency. When the Eizo is first turned on, it will come up to optimum display brightness in about a minute. Compare this to an Apple Cinema Display or a Dell, which can take 15-20 minutes to reach correct illumination. Side-by-side comparision is striking here. What's more, the Eizo has built-in illumination sensors that adjust brightness over the life of the monitor to keep the illumination level exactly where the user sets it. So, what you see after one minute is the same after 6 hours or a week or 2 years. Someone had mentioned viewing angle concerns. The Eizo is one of the best I've seen in that regard. 178 degree viewing angle which really is not just an empty spec. Again, side-by-side, the difference is immediate. Other nice things... the Eizo runs perfectly cool even when on for days. It comes with a 5 year warranty. Each and every monitor is individually calibrated in the factory for a gamma 2.2 curve. They look great straight out of the box. Bottom line is Eizo is top of the line and once you use one it is tough to go back. Incidentally, the CE240W isn't that expensive an option at $1,675 or the CE210W at about $1,100. If you can live without the 30" real estate, the Eizo 24" is the way to go. Hope this clears up some of the confusion. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Ortego Posted January 29, 2008 Share #17 Posted January 29, 2008 David, Your post was a very detailed and accurate reporting of the Eizo displays. I have owned two and I liked them both but the controls were a bit clumsy back then. In fact, I gave the newer flat panel to my son for use on his PC. It has damaged bands i.e. vertical stripes on the right side but that could happen to any LCD. Still, the newest crop is just around the corner so I’m quite anxious to see what Eizo and Apple will offer. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwolf Posted January 29, 2008 Share #18 Posted January 29, 2008 Be aware - one video card = one monitor calibration profile assigned to one monitor.. I have not tried this, but here is an article from Northlight Images that discusses how to use multiple monitor profiles with one dual-port card in Windows XP. But I expect that for most multiple monitor users, this isn't much of an issue. They probably do as I do, using the primary, calibrated monitor for color-critical work and the others for tools and other applications where color accuracy isn't that important. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted January 30, 2008 Share #19 Posted January 30, 2008 Anyone looking for a new monitor might find this announcement of interest: "LaCie has announced the new 324, a 24" LCD graphics monitor that fulfills the dual needs for affordability and quality performance for both still and motion graphics. The 324 is a 16:10 aspect wide-screen that employs a S-PVA panel and 10-bit gamma correction. It has 1920x1200 max resolution, 400 cd/m2 max luminance and has a contrast ratio of 1000:1. The 324 falls into the expanded gamut range category and LaCie claims it is 95% of Adobe RGB. It's response time is 6ms, it has 2 HDMI ports ,1 DVI-D port, and touts something called DCDi® by Faroudja - a video enhancing technology. We're told it should be shipping any day now. Price is expected to be around $1159." Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hahn73 Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share #20 Posted January 30, 2008 Hope this clears up some of the confusion. David David, Yes, that does help clear up some confusion. Thank you. At least now I have a starting point by which to judge the monitors. From what I can gather, it appears that the difference is in hardware calibration vs software calibration. Given that the new Dell 3008WFP claims a %117 color gamut, does that imply necessarily that they are using a higher bit LUT? But even then, I assume that the processor needs to also increase in bit size to improve the accuracy of the mapping of the colors? I recently discovered that NEC announced a new upcoming 30 inch monitor at the MacWorld Expo: the LCD3090WQXi. I'll never remember the model number without googling it, but it looks like it could be the optimal compromise between color accuracy, size, and price. Estimated street price is $2200 which I would instantly go for, if the color accuracy is anywhere close to the Eizo's and LaCie's. I believe the NEC 90 series is also designed with a super thin bezel in case you want to add monitors to create a multi-display setup. Anyone know much more about this monitor or the previous 90 series monitors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.