Is 60MP going to be the standard for a few further generations? Is that what you would want?

[finance0402]

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Hi everyone,

I was thinking about the Leica M12 and what I actually would want from it. There is the tendency to just go bigger on every metric but I feel like megapixels would not be something that I would find valuable given:

 

- file size

- speed

- Microshakes? 

 

What do you guys think?!

[LocalHero1953]

The solution is obvious: stick to the cameras you have - M11, M-EV1, Q3 43. 

Get used to them before you start worrying about the M12.

[michael_b]

For me 24 MP are the sweet spot. Most of the time I still use my M9 with ‚just‘ 18 MP and don‘t feel that I miss more resolution. I also own a SL2 with 47 MP, but the files are quite big and for my use I don‘t need 47 MP. It helps when you need to crop a picture, but most of the time you use the right lens and it is not necessary to crop. Therefore the 24 MP are perfect in terms of resolution, file size and high ISO noise. Nevertheless I think that the Megapixel rallye of the camera manufacturers will continue. 

[lct]

60mp is the sweet pot for shooting in crop mode aka digital zoom. This way, even the (progressive) RealLeicaMan can be happy with the LV mode since he can see outside the 1.3x or 1.8x digital framelines. Also 60mp can be reduced to 36mp or 18mp if needed. As much as i could like it 10 years ago, 24mp is just a thing of the past, the same way as 6mp i used to like too 20 years ago.

[fenykepesz]

i am perfectly happy with my m11d's 60MP, except... 

--- the more PIXELs, the more IBIS ---

if it just had IBIS on board, that would accommodate for the nervous and hectic style of photography i am usually involved in and for the type of b&w post processing i apply to the raw image data. 

so, if there was a chance for an M12-D with IBIS, i would buy it on the spot.  today.  every other technical and ergonomic aspect seems perfect to me in my current m11d.

 

[evikne]

54 minutes ago, fenykepesz said:

so, if there was a chance for an M12-D with IBIS, i would buy it on the spot.  today.  every other technical and ergonomic aspect seems perfect to me in my current m11d.

Except that they could very well bring back the thumb rest from the M10-D. 😊

[fenykepesz]

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb evikne:

Except that they could very well bring back the thumb rest from the M10-D. 😊

you are very right, Ernst @evikne - that's my second greatest sorrow about my m11d - i am missing that fake film advance lever thumb rest so much !  

[IkarusJohn]

I never give MP a thought, until it is a problem.

[DadDadDaddyo]

Is string long enough?

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, finance0402 said:

Hi everyone,

I was thinking about the Leica M12 and what I actually would want from it. There is the tendency to just go bigger on every metric but I feel like megapixels would not be something that I would find valuable given:

 

- file size

- speed

- Microshakes? 

 

What do you guys think?!

That you are missing some other problems:

-noise behaviour 

-non-CA purple fringing

-higher visibility of lens faults

-Slow processing (especially AI tools)

[DadDadDaddyo]

Or, put another way, "Is my suitcase the size suitcases will be in the future?"

Or is it, "Is this suitcase the correct size to take on my trip?"

[costa43]

5 hours ago, finance0402 said:

Hi everyone,

I was thinking about the Leica M12 and what I actually would want from it. There is the tendency to just go bigger on every metric but I feel like megapixels would not be something that I would find valuable given:

 

- file size

- speed

- Microshakes? 

 

What do you guys think?!

 

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

That you are missing some other problems:

-noise behaviour 

-non-CA purple fringing

-higher visibility of lens faults

-Slow processing (especially AI tools)

There are negatives that come with higher megapixel cameras but there are positives too. It’s pick your poison..

I doubt Leica will go back down in resolution with the M12, it’s a photo only camera with no AF and M11 owners will be a target market for them, less megapixels is a risk.  I think they will stabilise it. That will sell cameras. How they do it is the question, they’ve always stated there is not enough space, maybe a faster reading 60mp sensor is on the way so the shutter can go, maybe tech has evolved now so it fits with the current one. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited yesterday at 08:28 PM by costa43

[jaapv]

Yes, but I defy anybody to prove to me that 24 MP is inferior in the end result to 60 MP, unless it is about cropping. In other words: excellent for a Q camera. 

[costa43]

54 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Yes, but I defy anybody to prove to me that 24 MP is inferior in the end result to 60 MP, unless it is about cropping. In other words: excellent for a Q camera. 

Inferior is subjective, I do not think resolution equals image quality, there is more to what good image quality is than just the amount of detail rendered in a given picture in my opinion, but the argument for higher resolution sensors is there and a lot of people like them. You will no doubt find many who will take you up on your challenge. I’m not one of them. I actually like the look of lower resolution sensors with crappy dynamic range paired along with vintage lenses the most when I look back at my own personal archive. So for me, they are superior. 

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by costa43

[DadDadDaddyo]

Nobody could ever need a hard disk bigger than 20 Mb.

Edited 23 hours ago by DadDadDaddyo
20, not 10!

[LocalHero1953]

49 minutes ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Nobody could ever need a hard disk bigger than 20 Mb.

Edited 44 minutes ago by DadDadDaddyo
20, not 10!

By gum, you went through that extra 10Mb  quickly!

Edited 23 hours ago by LocalHero1953

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, DadDadDaddyo said:

Nobody could ever need a hard disk bigger than 20 Mb.

Or more than 64k of RAM …

Edited 19 hours ago by IkarusJohn

[DadDadDaddyo]

'Zackly!

[finance0402]

I know 60MP is already a lot, and for many people it’s more than enough, but after spending time with higher-res files and doing more large prints and heavy crops, I’m starting to feel like 60MP is becoming the new “baseline” rather than the ceiling. I actually hope Leica (and other full-frame brands) push things a bit further—somewhere around 70MP feels like a sweet spot.

A few reasons why 60MP can feel limiting these days:

• Cropping + large prints: If you crop a lot (landscape, architecture, product, wildlife, whatever), 60MP disappears faster than you’d think. And for big prints, the extra detail does show.

• Editing flexibility: Higher-res files make retouching and fine-detail work easier- you can zoom in, clean up small things, and still keep a crisp final image.

• Sensors + lenses can handle more: Modern lenses (especially Leica glass) are resolving way beyond what a 60MP sensor can capture. In some cases the sensor becomes the bottleneck.

• Future-proofing: Displays and print standards keep improving. What seems like “way too much” today becomes normal surprisingly quickly

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[hoolyproductions]

2 hours ago, finance0402 said:

I know 60MP is already a lot, and for many people it’s more than enough, but after spending time with higher-res files and doing more large prints and heavy crops, I’m starting to feel like 60MP is becoming the new “baseline” rather than the ceiling. I actually hope Leica (and other full-frame brands) push things a bit further—somewhere around 70MP feels like a sweet spot.

A few reasons why 60MP can feel limiting these days:

• Cropping + large prints: If you crop a lot (landscape, architecture, product, wildlife, whatever), 60MP disappears faster than you’d think. And for big prints, the extra detail does show.

• Editing flexibility: Higher-res files make retouching and fine-detail work easier- you can zoom in, clean up small things, and still keep a crisp final image.

• Sensors + lenses can handle more: Modern lenses (especially Leica glass) are resolving way beyond what a 60MP sensor can capture. In some cases the sensor becomes the bottleneck.

• Future-proofing: Displays and print standards keep improving. What seems like “way too much” today becomes normal surprisingly quickly

This is a good list. I would add: simply enjoying the details in, for example, a panoramic cityscape. Exploring the scene and checking features, sometimes revisiting it after a few years and being transported there. I rarely print and generally share on social media, so no real advantages there, but very much a pleasure to me!