Experience shopping at online stores

[Alex M]

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Hello,
I apologise for starting my journey on the forum with a q
uestion, but who else but Leica camera enthusiasts can help me?
I was planning to buy a Leica SL2 camera.
https://www.photospecialist.ie/ leica-10856-sl2-body-black-qm2-outlet

https://www.kamera-express.de/leica-10856-sl2-geh-use-schwarz-qm2-outlet
However, the online shops listed (there are also regular shops) did not satisfy my questions, which I consider to be quite normal.
Perhaps someone has used the services of these sites and has interesting experience with purchases and subsequent warranty repairs, sometimes with a 5-year warranty. These are EU countries.
Customer service was unable to give me clear answers to my questions:
Year of manufacture (there was only one answer: 24 June 2016!!!!!)
Condition (actual). I got the impression that the cameras are on the moon and the signal with real photos does not reach Earth. Perhaps I am mistaken and asking too much for €3,000?
I would appreciate your advice. I am unable to visit the shops listed on this website.
Yours sincerely, Alex
 

[250swb]

I have no experience with either of them, but there is something about their website presentation that wouldn't make me trust them. There are companies that offer great deals but are really only fishing for customers with fake adverts. Find an actual bricks and mortar camera shop such as a Leica Store or a well established shop, or go to an established online retailer like MPB. If you say where you are in Europe maybe somebody can advise you.

[Maarten]

Kamera Express is a reliable Dutch camera store that recently expanded in Germany. I’ve dealt with them and they offered good service. I don’t think their advertisement is fake.

[Pieter12]

You might find that even going to the store in person, no one will necessarily be able to answer your questions.

[Eoin]

Given the link was .ie I presume from Ireland?.

No retail outlets here would stock it.
There are plenty of reputable sellers on eBay, MBP is also an option as is Leica's own website.

€3k is about €800 too much for a mint SL2 IMO, search elsewhere and bide your time. Great camera.

[jdlaing]

16 minutes ago, Eoin said:

Given the link was .ie I presume from Ireland?.

No retail outlets here would stock it.
There are plenty of reputable sellers on eBay, MBP is also an option as is Leica's own website.

€3k is about €800 too much for a mint SL2 IMO, search elsewhere and bide your time. Great camera.

MPB is owned by Matt Barker. Nothing to do with Leica ownership. 

[Eoin]

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Nothing to do with what I wrote either 🙃

[Alex M]

I really appreciate your opinion. Two years ago, I bought some photography equipment on the website https://www.photospecialist.ie/ (based in the Netherlands) and had no complaints. They deliver to Ireland. In this case, the offer on the website is marked as ‘QM2 OUTLET’, and I understand what that means.
I asked a few simple questions: Hello, could you please clarify what Leica 10856 SL2 Body Black QM2 OUTLET means? 1. Demonstration version 2. Returned goods 3. Has minor scratches 4. What year was the camera manufactured? 

Over the course of a week, I corresponded with customer service and received the following responses from the consultant: ‘You can buy from us and have the package delivered directly to your address in Ireland, and if you are not satisfied with the product, you will have 30 days to return it and request a full refund; otherwise I can buy it directly from Leica!!!’.   (I really like this answer.)
‘No, the product is actually new, it's just that the price has been reduced because we have a lot of units in stock.’
‘The camera was released on 24 June 2016.’

I constantly monitor Ebay, classic.leica-camera and MBP websites, and I am attracted by the 5-year warranty from the seller.
Buying from a private individual has its drawbacks — I won't be able to send the camera on my behalf for warranty repairs in Wetzlar, as the warranty and receipt are not in my name, according to the response from the Leica office.
The manager of the German website was also unable to answer my questions.

 

Edited Sunday at 12:33 AM by Alex M

[PhotoCruiser]

Honestly i would never ever boy such a expensive camera at a to me unknown online shop, even less if they are unable to answer clear questions.
Nor would i buy anything else for that price and without seeing and testing it before, too high risk to have troubles not/delayed receiving, or not as advertised.

This February i bought my SL2 in the Leica Shop in Zürich and paid 3200 CHF for a in absolute new condition but preowned silver one while there was a black one with clear signs of use for 2800 chf.
I probably could save some hundreds buying elsewhere or from a private person,
but at this amounts i prefer to buy directly from Leica for the reason that they will be more helpful for any assistance.

Chris

[LocalHero1953]

Leica sells 'as new' cameras at a discount with a QM2 tag through dealers, with full Leica warranties. They have been used as display, demo or review units, refurbished by Leica and repackaged as new. They may have a cosmetic defect, though some buyers have commented that the defects are hard to find. I have bought at least one item this way in the past, and would always choose one if it was available. It was marked Q or QM2 or similar with a sticker on the outer grey box.

This may be why the dealers cannot give you much info about the specific camera - they are all more or less the same, as provided by Leica, as if they were new cameras.

The stated manufacturing date is odd though! 

Edited Sunday at 09:20 AM by LocalHero1953

[Alex M]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

 

 

LocalHero1953, thank you for the clarification. This is your life experience, I appreciate it, and your answer answers my questions. Regarding the camera's release date, I think the sales manager on the website was misinformed. 
I contacted Leica and received a response from the Sales Manager | Leica Classic Store  Quote: "Thank you for your enquiry. Unfortunately, we cannot make recommendations regarding the sale of other products. For security reasons, I am also unable to simply click on links. We invite you to visit our Classic Store. We and many other Leica stores offer the SL2 there. Leica does not provide a 5-year warranty. This does not work even if you register the product. When you buy a product anywhere, you enter into a purchase agreement with the seller. Therefore, the warranty must be provided by the seller, not the manufacturer!"

If Leica had replied that they sell refurbished, demonstration cameras to dealers, that would have clarified a lot for me.
 

Edited Sunday at 10:26 AM by Alex M

[Eoin]

9 hours ago, Alex M said:

They deliver to Ireland

We're always at the disadvantage due to our small market here in Ireland.

I've bought Leica QM2 or equivalent factory refurbs when buying my SL2/SL2S elsewhere. They were indistinguishable from new and came with a full Leica warranty.
They (Kamera Express), offer a 30 day returns policy, their warranty and within your budget, if you don't like it return it.

I appreciate you didn't get the level of competent service to your enquiry, I find these big retail/warehouse/online stores all of them can be hit and miss depending on who picked up the email.
At the end of the day being in Ireland, I'm not going to have a relationship with these sellers, I'm shopping there to get equipment at reasonable prices and I'll go where I think I get the best value in this ridiculously priced segment. If they are well established, good reputation, accept returns then I would take a punt on them.

 

[willeica]

2 hours ago, Eoin said:

We're always at the disadvantage due to our small market here in Ireland.

I've bought Leica QM2 or equivalent factory refurbs when buying my SL2/SL2S elsewhere. They were indistinguishable from new and came with a full Leica warranty.
They (Kamera Express), offer a 30 day returns policy, their warranty and within your budget, if you don't like it return it.

I appreciate you didn't get the level of competent service to your enquiry, I find these big retail/warehouse/online stores all of them can be hit and miss depending on who picked up the email.
At the end of the day being in Ireland, I'm not going to have a relationship with these sellers, I'm shopping there to get equipment at reasonable prices and I'll go where I think I get the best value in this ridiculously priced segment. If they are well established, good reputation, accept returns then I would take a punt on them.

 

Bermingham Cameras on Burgh Quay in Dublin are now Leica Dealers since 10 December 2024 and will provide new and second hand Leicas with warranties. They are a long established company and will stand over what they sell. I have no idea who photospecialist.ie is . 

As for the previous posts, purchasers are right to check on warranties before purchase. I won't comment on any particular online seller, but 'caveat emptor' is always advised.

William 

[LocalHero1953]

photospecialist.ie is just a website. The company sells through apparently national outlets, including photospecialist.co.uk - but these are just websites. They are actually the same as Kamera Express, a Dutch company, and deliver from mainland Europe.

[Eoin]

10 minutes ago, willeica said:

[willeica]

31 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

photospecialist.ie is just a website. The company sells through apparently national outlets, including photospecialist.co.uk - but these are just websites. They are actually the same as Kamera Express, a Dutch company, and deliver from mainland Europe.

Bermingham Cameras are supplied through a Dutch supplier Transcontinenta, which deals directly with Wetzlar. Dr Kaufmann has told me that he has a high regard for the Dutch company and that he is very happy to work with them. Last week, Bermingham Cameras had 3 or 4 copies of the new Leica M EV1 in the store within days after the launch.

I have no idea who owns Kamera Express.

William