Survey: Leica M EV1 – Future or mistake?

[JNK100]

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1 hour ago, Martin B said:

I have used this combination of M lenses on my Sony A7R for many years before actually getting my first digital M. This approach works well for lenses 35 mm and longer. But with wider lenses, I spent too much time correcting purple corner casts in photos due to the thicker sensor array. The adapter worked fine, but it is nicer to have a direct lens mount on the camera as the EV1 provides. 

And a much much nicer EVF to boot...

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[Edward Schwartzreich]

Another issue is that Leica has placed adjustment of ISO within the menu, and not on a knob on the camera’s exterior.

Personally, I dislike menu-driven cameras, and although there is an extensive menu on my M10s and M11, I can basically set these cameras up so that all the external knobs and buttons do 90% of what I need to do, adjusting for a shot.   I adjust the ISO frequently on these cameras.  I do not like auto-ISO.  Sorry.    On the M EV1, you have to call up the ISO on the menu.  It is only one push of the menu to get there, but it is still distracting for me.

Would I buy this camera?  No.   Would I accept it as a gift and not sell it?  Yes.   It has definite but limited  utility. 

[JNK100]

55 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Yuck!

+1

[JeTexas]

For work I've moved completely to a pair of SL2-S bodies with both SL lenses and M lenses. While focusing is not the same as with a rangefinder, it's very easy. Being able to zoom on the target area for fine focus is a big perk. On my typ 240 I was having to get the rangefinder calibrated annually, and it still wasn't quite right with every lens. I'd absolutely welcome an M form factor with a good digital viewfinder.

Unfortunately, there is no way I could justify the cost of a photo only body. Everyone wants video.

Edited yesterday at 06:30 PM by JeTexas

[Carl Seibert]

This thing is like fingernails on a blackboard for me. It's so flagrantly about making some money off the M brand rather than making something to make pictures. 

A Leica companion camera to the M would be nice. But this doesn't do anything that a dozen competitors don't do at a fraction of the price

Am I the only person who has noticed that the Visoflex imposes an outrageous blackout after each shot? I use mine for urban landscape at dusk and it's great for that. But it's like shooting a Hasselblad 500c. It does not make the M a mirrorless SLR.

Leica could have a full-frame version of the CL that would have been much more useful and would make a dandy second body to use with an M - for longer lenses and the ability to share lenses with the M. But the Nikon Zf does that for a quarter of the price.  

Sony has a bunch of cameras that would be great except they don't work well with many M lenses.  

Whatever the heck already paid for SLR you happen to already have works OK, too. That's what I will probably continue to use. Yeah, it's not as good interacting with subjects up close but by definition I'm a few steps further away when I pick it up to shoot so nobody seems to mind much. 

[kkm]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Edward Schwartzreich:

I have a 20-year old Sony A7-R

Sounds like you did a lot of Beta-testing 😉

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_α7#ILCE-7R

[Stephen.s1]

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Quote from FM:

 I did give some thought to posting on that Leica forum thread, what I posted here, but thought better of it. It's not that I don't have Leicas, I do, Nikons as well, so it's not a sour grapes thing with me. I just have a hard time, sometimes, reconciling completely with the mindset. Biggest advance on that camera seems to be the adjustable diopter. And there are 56 pages of discussion. With regard to all the discussion there of the M EV1, I kept thinking, good God just get a Zf and AF adapter already, and use your M lenses. The world is your oyster.

[stbeyer]

24 minutes ago, Edward Schwartzreich said:

Another issue is that Leica has placed adjustment of ISO within the menu, and not on a knob on the camera’s exterior.

Personally, I dislike menu-driven cameras, and although there is an extensive menu on my M10s and M11, I can basically set these cameras up so that all the external knobs and buttons do 90% of what I need to do, adjusting for a shot.   I adjust the ISO frequently on these cameras.  I do not like auto-ISO.  Sorry.    On the M EV1, you have to call up the ISO on the menu.  It is only one push of the menu to get there, but it is still distracting for me.

Actually, in the default setup, ISO is mapped to the thumb wheel. You press it in and adjust the ISO. No need to open the menu. Personally, I have replaced that with exposure compensation, but still, it's there. 

[Martin B]

36 minutes ago, JNK100 said:

And a much much nicer EVF to boot...

Not sure why this was overlooked when the EV1 camera was tested, but I am pretty sure the startup time can be improved/fixed with a sooner than later firmware update. I remember Sony had a similar issue with camera startup time when they first released the A7 series and fixed it soon after with a firmware update. What can't be fixed with firmware in the EV1 and many complain about are the EVF based focusing tools. This is likely something to accept or disregard the camera.   

[SrMi]

18 minutes ago, Stephen.s1 said:

Quote from FM:

 I did give some thought to posting on that Leica forum thread, what I posted here, but thought better of it. It's not that I don't have Leicas, I do, Nikons as well, so it's not a sour grapes thing with me. I just have a hard time, sometimes, reconciling completely with the mindset. Biggest advance on that camera seems to be the adjustable diopter. And there are 56 pages of discussion. With regard to all the discussion there of the M EV1, I kept thinking, good God just get a Zf and AF adapter already, and use your M lenses. The world is your oyster.

Yuck again. (but less for Zf than Sony).

[Martin B]

20 minutes ago, Stephen.s1 said:

Quote from FM:

 I did give some thought to posting on that Leica forum thread, what I posted here, but thought better of it. It's not that I don't have Leicas, I do, Nikons as well, so it's not a sour grapes thing with me. I just have a hard time, sometimes, reconciling completely with the mindset. Biggest advance on that camera seems to be the adjustable diopter. And there are 56 pages of discussion. With regard to all the discussion there of the M EV1, I kept thinking, good God just get a Zf and AF adapter already, and use your M lenses. The world is your oyster.

I was considering exactly doing this a while ago. Only that I didn't really want to go back to adapting lenses on a camera mount - I would rather prefer to have a nearly full compatibility of M-lenses on a M-specific lens mount like in the EV1. My experience from using M-adapters many years on my Sony A7R before getting my first digital M is that the adapter often changes the central lens position a bit which I found sometimes a bit inconvenient. The TechArt AF adapter might be different here (never used it), but I have no interest making my manual focus M lenses work with AF. I actually prefer manual focusing. I did the same with all kind of lenses adapted to my A7R very successfully - it was sometimes just not as fast as rangefinder focusing. So adapting M lenses on another camera left a bit of bitter taste for me since it would be kind of a throwback for me to 11 years ago when I worked like this on my A7R. I hoped the EV1 would provide me some improved electronic focus technique over peaking and magnification which didn't happen. 

I probably would still adapt M lenses on my A7R if it worked better for ultrawide lenses. This was the main reason why I moved to digital M at some point. The rangefinder itself was a secondary benefit for me, but it is not a must-have. I target the EV1 as used camera body in a couple of years for much more reasonable pricing.   

[DadDadDaddyo]

Nice survey. I'm glad there were more nuanced choices than just, "It's the future," or, "Never! Nay, Never!"

For my part, I'll buy an upgraded Visoflex if one is offered. That'll meet my occasional EVF wishes very nicely. 

Should Leica ever develop a hybrid finder that lives up to their standards, I'll take a serious look at a Leica thus equipped. 

Edited yesterday at 07:22 PM by DadDadDaddyo
typo

[Knorp]

It's inevitable I suppose: this EV1 (or hopefully many iterations later) will be my future ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[BWColor]

2 hours ago, Beewacker said:

I bought the Visoflex 2 for my M11 last year. I've used it twice and still can't stand it. The focusing just isn't as fast as a rangefinder, but to each their own.

I shoot a good bit at 21 mm and either the VF2, or an optical viewfinder is useful.  Focus is pretty easy, just based on distance. I also use the electronic View finder with it tilted up 90° for some street shots .. again I don’t worry about focusing.  The only lenses I use this for focusing are my 50mm f/1.2 and sometimes with the 90mm f/2.0.

[SanDiegoMike]

I don't wqnt to go all electronic on my Leica's. Especially at the very high price being offered. Anyway, doesn't the Q series of cameras already have an electronic viewfinder. That's how I use the screen.

Edited yesterday at 08:05 PM by SanDiegoMike
spelling correction

[SanDiegoMike]

There are other reasons for concern, Imitation by other manufacturers will be easy, many already use electronic shutters (Panasonic, Sony, ...), and I would be concerned about the ability to use my favorite classic leica lenses and those from other manufacturers.

[MRJohn]

The way some of this discussion is going makes me wonder whether due to the well-articulated and convincingly-justified bashing this nice forward-looking retro-component camera will be decommissioned before you know it. And so the lucky early adopters will soon see their M EV1 triple in value as it becomes a collectible. 

 

 

[eawholloway]

I collected mine from the Leica Manchester store this morning. Very satisfied in all respects. I have found focusing with just an enlarged image view, no focus peaking, is very easy. The new role for the 'frame selector' lever makes switching on the viewfinder enlarged view very quick and helpful. I tried using the camera  with both the f3.4 21mm and the f3.4 135mm lenses very straigtforward . Although the actual weight difference between the M11 and M EV1 is only about 80gm, it feels significantly lighter in the hand.

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[altphoto]

Best list, I fear this is the wrong path Leica is taking. The next step is a camera with newly designed lenses that allow automatic focusing (don't forget that Leica already had such a series for the SL). The traditional Leica rangefinder camera will then be a thing of the past. A necessary break in history? Perhaps? But given the price of the cameras and their technical lag compared to the competition, you might wonder why you'd choose Leica at all.

[SrMi]

16 minutes ago, altphoto said:

Best list, I fear this is the wrong path Leica is taking. The next step is a camera with newly designed lenses that allow automatic focusing (don't forget that Leica already had such a series for the SL). The traditional Leica rangefinder camera will then be a thing of the past. A necessary break in history? Perhaps? But given the price of the cameras and their technical lag compared to the competition, you might wonder why you'd choose Leica at all.

Rangefinder M cameras are the future, according to Leica. M-EV1 and any future variation do not threaten the future of the rangefinder cameras. Without rangefinder versions, there will be no M system.