stuny Posted January 14, 2008 Share #21 Posted January 14, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) A lot of what I read above confirms my suspicion that Capture one never got the concept of human factors engineering (or its synonyms of ergonomics or usability). I found 3.7.3 sadly lacking in that area, lagging the market by about 15 years, and found 3.7.4 even worse. In email with Capture One they claimed that I would not be disappointed in the human factors engineering of the soon to be released version. Seems it never happened. For now I’ll continue to use 3.7.3 for DNG conversions, and then go elsewhere for post processing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14, 2008 Posted January 14, 2008 Hi stuny, Take a look here I've given up n Capture One 4. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted January 14, 2008 Share #22 Posted January 14, 2008 Hi Jaap, Work with C1-4 is work with many subtle advantages, among them with specific ICC profiles. You can also take advantage of the smart objects selecting in C1-4 "Process Recipe" the output format "DNG", after treated the raw image, and opening the file with PS-CS3 from where it has been located by the previous process. This new DNG file can be opened by Camera Raw 4.3.1, treated and then opened as smart object. Francisco. Francisco, I agree that C1-4 is better but only with quite a lot of practice. The users manual is totally useless and has lots of ambiguities and unclear instructions. The video is a great help with a lot of the basics. I am hoping that one of the photographic professional authors will get around to writing a book on C1-4 to cover all the hidden features like the 'CS3 for Digital Photographers' book I have. I think the programmers at Phase One have made a bit of an error with the upgrade from 3.7.7 to 4. They should have followed the example of Microsoft (yes - just very occasionally they DO get something right) for their office suite of programs, where with each upgrade, the basics stay pretty similar if you are just doing basic tasks but they add lots of additional features, which you only need to access if you want to. I may be eating my words when Office 2008 for Mac arrives on Wednesday and and I start shouting "OMG why on earth did they do that!" Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMB Posted January 14, 2008 Share #23 Posted January 14, 2008 Certainly I miss many options of 3.7.7, like its preferences. I can't understand how they have forgotten some simple questions. I think they, for some ignored reasons, were in a hurry to launch No 4. But, in spite of all, I believe C1-4 is the cheapest software to treat DNG with the better quality in a very good balance colors (at least for my loved M8 dngs). Francisco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted March 9, 2008 Share #24 Posted March 9, 2008 I haven't given up on Capture One 4 yet, but I'm getting close. Both previous version yielded very nice conversions and I managed to deal with the idiosyncrasies OK. Over the course of 10 months I got pretty familiar with it. Version 4.0, however, really has me beat. After a month I haven't been able to convert a single DNG image with the darn thing. Install, uninstall, register, unregister, nothing seems to help. The documentation is best described as .... "interesting", but of little help. The good news is that it came bundled with the camera. If I had bought this separately I probably would be irate. Could be that it's such a memory hog that I can't run it. But then, I run CS3, Lightroom and Qimage simultaneously with no prob. ACR and Lightroom do OK, but I miss the B&W profiles and the JHR profiles I used in C1. I would give up some of the fine controls of Lightroom for the profiles available in C1. I could see buying SilkyPix which worked fine when I tried the demo, but I've had it with PhaseOne stuff. There, I've said it. I feel better now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 9, 2008 Share #25 Posted March 9, 2008 I haven't given up on Capture One 4 yet, but I'm getting close. Both previous version yielded very nice conversions and I managed to deal with the idiosyncrasies OK. Over the course of 10 months I got pretty familiar with it. Version 4.0, however, really has me beat. After a month I haven't been able to convert a single DNG image with the darn thing. Install, uninstall, register, unregister, nothing seems to help. The documentation is best described as .... "interesting", but of little help. The good news is that it came bundled with the camera. If I had bought this separately I probably would be irate. Could be that it's such a memory hog that I can't run it. But then, I run CS3, Lightroom and Qimage simultaneously with no prob. ACR and Lightroom do OK, but I miss the B&W profiles and the JHR profiles I used in C1. I would give up some of the fine controls of Lightroom for the profiles available in C1. I could see buying SilkyPix which worked fine when I tried the demo, but I've had it with PhaseOne stuff. There, I've said it. I feel better now. Dave, Are you using a Macintosh with Leopard and not seeing images? There is a solution posted on C1's knowledge base. When the 10.5.1 update was installed it did something funny with the icc/icm profiles and moved them around. Make sure you have your screen or display profiles installed in both user/library/colorsync/profiles and HD/library/colorsync/profiles and the images will magically reappear. If you have the images but are just having difficulty with Capture One V4, firstly make sure you have the latest version installed (a major update of the whole program was released in mid-february) and then download their instructional video. It lasts about 30 minutes and the whole C1/4 thing seems to make sense after you watch it. I was about to do what you were and dump C1/4. Now I have watched the video, I am now getting on just fine and have dumped C1 3.7.7 from all my Macs. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveB Posted March 9, 2008 Share #26 Posted March 9, 2008 Dave, Are you using a Macintosh with Leopard and not seeing images? No, I'm using Windows XP. I waited for the updated version last month before installing it. I thought I had all the profiles correctly installed following instructions that others have posted here. This is the first thing I'm going to confirm today. If still no joy, I'm going to deactivate my desktop and see if I can get it up and running on my laptop. The video is very good and frankly the user interface seems perfectly intuitive to me. Just can't get it to do more than load a preview. By hook or by crook, I can usually puzzle these things out. If not at night, then certainly by the next morning. It says something about the current status of digital photography though. The dedication and application necessary to do more than take jpg snapshots is pretty daunting. I've been processing Canon RAW files and tweaking in PS for about six years now and have survived the frustrations that come with conversion, scanning and PP software. Newcomers, I imagine, must just throw their hands up in disgust at the learning curve necessary to do more than produce casual snapshots. That's got to be a problem for growing the industry. Not everyone is a professional or a dedicated amateur. Not to mention what's involved in producing a quality print. </rant> I very much appreciate the advice and encouragement. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 9, 2008 Share #27 Posted March 9, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dave, Sorry I can't help you any more that I have but having been pounding my head in frustration with my daughter's Windoze laptop this week, I am going to stick with Mac. I am however sure that your problem lies in the profiles area. Once you get it working, I am sure you will find that C1/4 is a great tool. I took a whole bunch of DNG's on Friday, set up the parameters and left C1 to itself. About 15 minutes later, it had finished all 80+ images (and this is on my MacBook laptop not my big Powermac). A few of the images needed a small tweak in PS-CS3 but they were mostly pretty good. I am now finding that the print engine in CS3 is so good, I have given up doing small A5 test prints before I do A3+ plus ones. I now have ICC print profiles for all the papers I use. Compared with my first tries at RAW with my Digilux 1 in 2003, things seem to got much easier. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 9, 2008 Share #28 Posted March 9, 2008 I now need some help on Capture One V4. When I installed the update to V4 (4.0.1.1), not unexpectedly it binned all my additional Leica M8 profiles (Chorme , Low Sat, 486, IR etc). However in anticipation, I had backed up all the profiles into a temp folder. I have now copied these icc profiles back into: Applications/CaptureOne/Contents/Resources/Profiles/Input and restarted C1. I have even tried restarting my MacBook. The profiles stubbornly refuse to appear in the listed input/camera profiles either under the default heading, Leica or Other. I am pretty sure I have got the file name syntax right, as I have not altered it since using it in the earlier version of C1/4, where it worked just fine. Has anyone any ideas? Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted March 11, 2008 Share #29 Posted March 11, 2008 No idea, but you might try here : Apple - Support - Discussions - Forum Home In any case, since I compared C1, LR and A2, the latter is way ahead, hands down, regarding tones neutrality — especially on skin and wood — stunning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted March 11, 2008 Share #30 Posted March 11, 2008 I'm getting much fonder of Capture One 4, it keeps impressing me more and more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 11, 2008 Share #31 Posted March 11, 2008 I'm getting much fonder of Capture One 4, it keeps impressing me more and more. Conrad, I'm with you. As much as I miss the Pro version (c'mon Phase One!!) they have some serious mojo underneath the hood of V4. Colour, clarity, noise reduction, detail, all of these are much improved over version 3.x. I also love the new image manipulation interfaces... being able to tweak an image in a 6-up display to match 5 others is really nice. Now, if I could only output a JPEG and a TIFF at the same time, and tweak profiles, I'd be happy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted March 11, 2008 Share #32 Posted March 11, 2008 Jamie, Don't you find a big difference in colour tones between C1 and Aperture, just out of camera, before any tweaking ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 11, 2008 Share #33 Posted March 11, 2008 I just can't get used to C1 version 4 in this layout style . It really bugs me., I go pretty fast and need to flow faster and I just don't like the interface and now after all these years with C1 not sure i can even upgrade to the Pro version without paying again. now i have tried A2 and do like it very much but a couple things are missing for me like vignetting control and some tone mapping stuff but the files look good. My best bet at the moment is Lightroom, i love the flow and i like how it handles my raw files. i have a completely different drive for all LR stuff so I know where everything resides. I like the flow the best out of the three but that may change too. Honestly there all good just need to find what is comfortable. I will say someone at Adobe likes Red and M8 files and at C1 someone likes yellow . A2 seems the most neutral at the moment. But right now until the Pro version comes out I have given up on C1. My other issue is I am getting a Nikon D300 so need to see what is best for that also . I don't want to run different programs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted March 11, 2008 Share #34 Posted March 11, 2008 A2 seems the most neutral at the moment. Quite true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 11, 2008 Share #35 Posted March 11, 2008 Jamie,Don't you find a big difference in colour tones between C1 and Aperture, just out of camera, before any tweaking ? @ Sthan Actually, no--since I'm not on a Mac I don't use Aperture. I hear the new version is much improved. But I've never seen a raw converter where the shots don't need tweaking (unless you're going to do it all in PS). @ Guy, LOL!! You just need to force yourself to do a big job in C1 V4 to "get" the differences and the hidden stuff (like Shift-CTRL-D to add selected shots to a batch process, which is key to being quick! How could they miss documenting that!?!) and then I think you'll find it's even faster than C1 v3.x... Anyway, they need to put back some of the mouse controls....and let us know what works on the D3. I still don't like colours in LR; reds are messed is right But when the next version of LR and C1 V4 Pro come out I expect it will be an interesting shooting match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 11, 2008 Share #36 Posted March 11, 2008 Yes Jamie i also never gave it a fighting chance either. LOL Too much in a hurry to learn that one too on the speed of functions issue. Yes LR is red no question and for portraits or people stuff I have to be real careful. BTW A2 has Moire control and it actually works. Missing in C1 and LR. A feature that we need, with events and tweed jackets i get a lot of it. Need a program that does the best of the three and honestly it really comes down to a couple simple features to be added to each one. What I don't like Aperture is where my files are , Again a program that i just been playing with, I just need more time in my day. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted March 11, 2008 Share #37 Posted March 11, 2008 Yes Jamie i also never gave it a fighting chance either. LOL Too much in a hurry to learn that one too on the speed of functions issue. Yes LR is red no question and for portraits or people stuff I have to be real careful. BTW A2 has Moire control and it actually works. Missing in C1 and LR. A feature that we need, with events and tweed jackets i get a lot of it. Need a program that does the best of the three and honestly it really comes down to a couple simple features to be added to each one. What I don't like Aperture is where my files are , Again a program that i just been playing with, I just need more time in my day. LOL C1 has a moiré filter plug in for Photoshop, I haven't had much occasion to use it with the DMR for sure. BTW, are you changing cameras again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgcd Posted March 11, 2008 Share #38 Posted March 11, 2008 Conrad, I'm with you. As much as I miss the Pro version (c'mon Phase One!!) they have some serious mojo underneath the hood of V4. Colour, clarity, noise reduction, detail, all of these are much improved over version 3.x. I also love the new image manipulation interfaces... being able to tweak an image in a 6-up display to match 5 others is really nice. Now, if I could only output a JPEG and a TIFF at the same time, and tweak profiles, I'd be happy Jamie - I really think that if people just looked at the video they would understand what a formidable tool Capture One 4 really is. The highlights and shadow recovery controls alone are worth their weight in goal, and yes noise, colour detail and dynamic range are much improved. I truly love the customizable interface and the multiple image display function. A true winner. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 11, 2008 Share #39 Posted March 11, 2008 I have solved the problem of the missing profiles on C1/4. It is a matter of having the file name syntax exactly correct. Your profile name must be in exactly this format: LeicaM8-profile name.icm There must be no space between Leica and M8 then a hyphen but no spaces between your profile name and LeicaM8. To install on Mac you need to right click or control click on Capture One in Applications. Then click on show package contents. You then add the correctly named profiles to: Applications/Capture One/Contents/Resources/Profiles/Input Once you have restarted Capture One V4, all your tweaked M8 profiles e.g. Jamie's chrome one and Edmund's Lo-Sat, will appear under the base characteristics on the "Quick" tab in C1/4. Hope this may prevent others having to struggle to get them in like I did. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 11, 2008 Share #40 Posted March 11, 2008 C1 has a moiré filter plug in for Photoshop, I haven't had much occasion to use it with the DMR for sure. BTW, are you changing cameras again? Not for Mac , Conrad. Not sure why that is and the new C1 version 4 does not have it either, maybe the Pro version coming . No just selling my 5d and switching to Nikon for the other stuff that the M8 can't do well like long tele work and PC work. We will see what Photokinia brings and the R10 than make a call. I simply can't leave Leica lenses out of my kit as you know there just too damn good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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