Classic M vs. M EV1 - Focus Accuracy & Speed

[Bliz]

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13 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

With a rangefinder 35 mm camera, in daylight you would likely set the lens, most  likely a 50 or 35 mm at f/8, quickly focus and rely on the dof for an acceptable result. If you were just doing family photos, the print would usually be no larger than 3.5 x 5 or 4 by 6 inches, so pretty much sharp enough. If you were a photojournalist, the image would be fine for a  single spread at 133 line screen. In low light situations, you would open the lens to its maximum aperture and accept whatever result from a grainy neg enlargement.

This translated to a 60mp sensor really does it justice lol

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[Ne314satel]

I shoot very quickly at night with the M11 and Noctilux 50 0.95—only with the RF. With the LV, it's torture—the screen is bright at night and people are walking around. With the EV1, it's the same, plus the approximately 1/3-second delay—you press the shutter, and the person has already taken a step.

[Marcial]

My experience is with a Leica CL with focus peaking and magnification; perhaps the M EV-1 finder is better. I gave up using M lenses with the CL as manual focus with that technology was no fun at all. The CL was (I traded it for a Fuji X-E5) much better with L lenses. Thus I will hold off on a EV M until they come up with a focus aid that truly is as effective as a mechanical RF; given AI/digital technology that should be attainable in the near future.

Edited 20 hours ago by Marcial

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, lct said:

Matter of taste and/or experience i guess. I never did that in the 10+ years i used mirrorless cameras with M lenses. YMMV

I will try to shoot more without focusing wide open, as "riding the aperture" is annoying.

[CDodkin]

11 hours ago, jjesp said:

Focus peaking does not give much sense with manual lenses, if you don't shoot wide open. Peaking is nice on automatic lenses, since they stay open until you press the shutter. But with a 28 or 35mm lens on f/8 or f/11, it is worthless. Leica should have made some kind of electronic patch window, and implemented better focus aid....

It's not worthless if you use peaking + zoom. You can see the optimal focus point even with a wide DOF on a 28mm lens at f/8, for example.

[CDodkin]

Here's the M11 (Same as M EV1) with Voigtlander 50mm f/1, at f/1.0, using the EVF with zoom + peaking to achieve focus.

Using this method, you can clearly see which area of the subject is in focus - shooting at F/1 could be considered stupid/extreme, but in this case I wanted an other-worldly separation of the subject from her surroundings, so f/1 it is.

 

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Edited 12 hours ago by CDodkin

[Jewl]

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Very interesting and helpful input so far! Thanks to everyone! Will deffo check it out to make my own experience and whether it might replace the M11 or not  

[SrMi]

As a reminder, many Leica owners use the Visoflex for framing and focusing. There are reasons why they are using EVFs for focusing. Removing the rangefinder did not make the focusing worse than with the Visoflex.

[Chris W]

23 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Simple trigonometry, Chris.

If you get an accurate measure on an object, then rotate, say 30°, the plane of best focus will move behind.  

I know that, but in practice it has very rarely happened to me. I'm not focussing on an object radically to one side of my shot, and shooting between 2.8 and 5.6 the area IN focus is much wider. Obviously focussing at 1.8 and recomposing is going to throw up more issues.

[ELAN]

I think it depends on whether you are shooting a static or moving subject. If your subject is static you have plenty of time to zoom and peak and open/close the aperture. But if your subject is moving, even a little, the composition will likely change by the time you focus with the EVF.  I generally photograph people in dynamic settings while interacting with them and I can’t imagine focusing with anything but a rangefinder. 

Edited 5 hours ago by ELAN

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, ELAN said:

I think it depends on whether you are shooting a static or moving subject. If your subject is static you have plenty of time to zoom and peak and open/close the aperture. But if your subject is moving, even a little, the composition will likely change by the time you focus with the EVF.  I generally photograph people in dynamic settings while interacting with them and I can’t imagine focusing with anything but a rangefinder. 

Zone focusing is still an attractive mode when even rangefinder focusing is too slow; it still works with the M-EV1.

[ELAN]

2 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Zone focusing is still an attractive mode when even rangefinder focusing is too slow; it still works with the M-EV1.

Zone focusing works if you are relatively far from your subject (more than 2 meters) and shoot with a relatively closed aperture.  But if you shoot people from 1.5 meters at f/2.8 or less zone focusing isn’t going to achieve acceptable focus. 

[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, ELAN said:

Zone focusing works if you are relatively far from your subject (more than 2 meters) and shoot with a relatively closed aperture.  But if you shoot people from 1.5 meters at f/2.8 or less zone focusing isn’t going to achieve acceptable focus. 

It also depends on the focal length. My point is that the zone focusing method did not become obsolete by removing the rangefinder. It works where it worked before, and it doesn't work where it didn't before.

[pgk]

40 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Zone focusing is still an attractive mode when even rangefinder focusing is too slow; it still works with the M-EV1.

Might as well use any AF camera if you are going to rely on approximate focus. The whole point of the M camera is that it offers precision focus (with the RF or magnified view with the EVF). If you are going to shoot zone focus then both are irrelevant and AF makes vastly more sense.

[jjesp]

10 hours ago, CDodkin said:

It's not worthless if you use peaking + zoom. You can see the optimal focus point even with a wide DOF on a 28mm lens at f/8, for example.

Let me challenge that then. Set i on f/11 and infinity. Focus slowly down on a subject 2.5 meters away until it peaks. Look at the distance scale. I am pretty sure you stopped at 5 meters. Now try it on f/1.4 or f/2. Then you will be much closer to the real distance...

Yes I of course also use zoom in with my Leica SL2s and manual focus lenses. But an M lens on f/8 the peaking everywhere. On a SL lens in manual mode it is fine, since that lens stays full open until you press down the shutter. But again if it works for you, all is fine. We are all different. 

[jjesp]

21 hours ago, SrMi said:

You should focus wide open anyway, if you care for critical focus, and then close the aperture for shooting.

Yes I always do this. But with some lenses there are focus shift when stopping down.

[lct]

3 minutes ago, jjesp said:

[...] But an M lens on f/8 the peaking everywhere [...]

It is not with magnification. Peaking is more visible at the point of focus. Shot this snap this way (M11, 28/2 @ f/8). Crop here.

 

[lct]

21 minutes ago, jjesp said:

Yes I always do this. But with some lenses there are focus shift when stopping down.

No focus shift issue when focusing at working aperture.

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