Kinks Gone, Firmware Improvements. Former M10 Users Happy with M11?

[Jeff S]

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6 hours ago, jaapv said:

I was indeed not quite serious, but there are a few things we can learn from sharpshooters:

1. Stability. Spread your legs, lean against something, sit down with your elbows on your knees, etc. Relax  

2. Camera hold: Grip firmly with your right hand, stabilize with your left and rest against your face and forehead. Three stabilizing points. Elbows not sticking out, against your body  when applicable  

3. Trigger smoothness: relax your finger straight and rest on the collar around the shutter button. Just twitch to release, never jab

4. Follow through. Keep the camera at your eye for a moment and only then carry on. 
 

Don’t point and shoot  You are not Lucky Luke 

You’ll halve those ninety degree or better  

 

 

Or this golden oldie “sniper” holding strap technique described by Lars…

 

[M11 for me]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb fenykepesz:

 

 

 

you are all right, @jaapv @jakontil @DadDadDaddyo and all others, and i am aware of such, all those tricks, doing this photo business for enough decades - but frequently enough i still don't have much time to deliberately & intentionally relax.  sure, it depends on the type of photography ones uses her/his camera for, in general - but in the situations i am in at times, there isn't much space for planning that lucky shot, like here or there ...

having said all this, i am still perfectly happy with my m11d, the best camera body i ever owned - but i am not terribly comfortable using those next 90° on the dial while being so aware of the 61 million tiny pixels that deserve a chance to capture such cute eyelashes .

ultimately it's an optimization question between physics, some geometry, and a noisy biology on both ends of the glass - IBIS should help improving the equation i feel.

You do wonderful photography and most of the time you shoot people/children doing this ot that. I envy you how well you are able to fokus plus release without shake in a very short time. The M11 is therefore advantageous to us as we can go with quite high ISO without being punished too much.

In your case there might be the question how many of your shots come out sharp. Maybe lots are unsharp due to wrong focus or camera shake etc. It would certainly be great if the future M12 had IBIS so that at least the camera shake issue would be mitigated.

 

[jaapv]

This is where technique beats technology. You can follow moving subjects and get them sharp in low light. IBIS only works in static situations. Panning is impossible. 

[jakontil]

7 hours ago, fenykepesz said:

 

 

 

you are all right, @jaapv @jakontil @DadDadDaddyo and all others, and i am aware of such, all those tricks, doing this photo business for enough decades - but frequently enough i still don't have much time to deliberately & intentionally relax.  sure, it depends on the type of photography ones uses her/his camera for, in general - but in the situations i am in at times, there isn't much space for planning that lucky shot, like here or there ...

having said all this, i am still perfectly happy with my m11d, the best camera body i ever owned - but i am not terribly comfortable using those next 90° on the dial while being so aware of the 61 million tiny pixels that deserve a chance to capture such cute eyelashes .

ultimately it's an optimization question between physics, some geometry, and a noisy biology on both ends of the glass - IBIS should help improving the equation i feel.

No denying, ibis is quite a useful addition, i used the x2d with its great ibis for s couple good years.. soo seamless and addictive like you can be shooting so carelessly without worrying camera shake

[fenykepesz]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb M11 for me:

You do wonderful photography and most of the time you shoot people/children doing this ot that. I envy you how well you are able to fokus plus release without shake in a very short time. The M11 is therefore advantageous to us as we can go with quite high ISO without being punished too much.

In your case there might be the question how many of your shots come out sharp. Maybe lots are unsharp due to wrong focus or camera shake etc. It would certainly be great if the future M12 had IBIS so that at least the camera shake issue would be mitigated.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

This is where technique beats technology. You can follow moving subjects and get them sharp in low light. IBIS only works in static situations. Panning is impossible. 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb jakontil:

No denying, ibis is quite a useful addition, i used the x2d with its great ibis for s couple good years.. soo seamless and addictive like you can be shooting so carelessly without worrying camera shake

i think all i want to say here is that i am just comparing myself overcautiously taking today high-res digital pictures without ibis in low-light situations at 1/125 or faster as opposed to the near reckless and thoughtless way i had snapped away at 1/[60,30,15,8] in those good old asa/iso/100/400 film days...  the resulting photos may even look quite similar,  grainy  as  hell  in both cases - which of course isn't a bad thing in itself, right ?

[jaapv]

One of the reasons that I refuse to buy a camera over 24 MP. It would inhibit my photography. There is no advantage for me and all the known issues would prevail. Leica is wise to offer the option in the -S (IMO the better for general use) SLs

[84bravo]

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

One of the reasons that I refuse to buy a camera over 24 MP. It would inhibit my photography. There is no advantage for me and all the known issues would prevail. Leica is wise to offer the option in the -S (IMO the better for general use) SLs

I use an M10-R and M11 side by side. The 40mp sensor of the M10-R is fine for me at slow shutter speeds. However, the same cannot be said for the 60mp sensor of the M11. It is quite unforgiving with camera shake.

[newtoleica]

4 hours ago, 84bravo said:

I use an M10-R and M11 side by side. The 40mp sensor of the M10-R is fine for me at slow shutter speeds. However, the same cannot be said for the 60mp sensor of the M11. It is quite unforgiving with camera shake.

Having had an M9,10P, M10M and now an 11D I really don’t understand the term ‘unforgiving of camera shake’… the point is that motion blur and camera movement impact on unsnarl images for a given final (print/image) size. You may be able to print larger (or crop) with a 60MP sensor IF your situation allows, but don’t assume it. Nothing wrong with a slightly less sharp image at 100% if you only need it at A3 size, and in many cases a bit of blur is fine….. 60MP wouldn’t stop me having the camera although I accept many times I can’t and don’t need the full 60. The sensor is otherwise superb and way ahead of that in the M10. 

[fenykepesz]

Am 11.11.2025 um 10:56 schrieb 84bravo:

I use an M10-R and M11 side by side. The 40mp sensor of the M10-R is fine for me at slow shutter speeds. However, the same cannot be said for the 60mp sensor of the M11. It is quite unforgiving with camera shake.

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb newtoleica:

Having had an M9,10P, M10M and now an 11D I really don’t understand the term ‘unforgiving of camera shake’… the point is that motion blur and camera movement impact on unsnarl images for a given final (print/image) size. You may be able to print larger (or crop) with a 60MP sensor IF your situation allows, but don’t assume it. Nothing wrong with a slightly less sharp image at 100% if you only need it at A3 size, and in many cases a bit of blur is fine….. 60MP wouldn’t stop me having the camera although I accept many times I can’t and don’t need the full 60. The sensor is otherwise superb and way ahead of that in the M10. 

just to add on to the topic 'ibis and image noise', i took in the morning this picture at iso800/250/50mm/1.4 and converted to BW without any denoising and sharpening.  it turned out more or less sharp (focus was on the booklet's edge) - but i assume a 3-axis-IBIS would allow me to take the photo three stops earlier at iso64/30 which would present with considerably less RGB noise and with that render also significantly 'sharper' under BW.  in this particular case i actually don't mind so much the noise pattern, but sometimes it can surface at a disturbing level, whereas i again believe IBIS could play a life-photo-saver.  i have at home a carbon Gitzo tripod but i feel it may just stand in the way during such paparazzo moments...

Edited November 12 by fenykepesz

[newtoleica]

On 11/12/2025 at 4:58 PM, fenykepesz said:

 

just to add on to the topic 'ibis and image noise', i took in the morning this picture at iso800/250/50mm/1.4 and converted to BW without any denoising and sharpening.  it turned out more or less sharp (focus was on the booklet's edge) - but i assume a 3-axis-IBIS would allow me to take the photo three stops earlier at iso64/30 which would present with considerably less RGB noise and with that render also significantly 'sharper' under BW.  in this particular case i actually don't mind so much the noise pattern, but sometimes it can surface at a disturbing level, whereas i again believe IBIS could play a life-photo-saver.  i have at home a carbon Gitzo tripod but i feel it may just stand in the way during such paparazzo moments...

But the photo is plenty sharp enough and the grain is fine. A mono would be better and I personally go for a bit more punch, but thats just a style thing… 

[fenykepesz]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb newtoleica:

But the photo is plenty sharp enough and the grain is fine. A mono would be better and I personally go for a bit more punch, but thats just a style thing… 

you are right, @newtoleica this wasn't the most dramatic example - but i have cases where the RBG noise really affects sharpness during the gimp/gegl/c2g conversion process as the algorithm itself is sensitive to such inter-color signal variability - an inherent weakness or a feature of that c2g system one may argue.  

sure, a monochrom will produce super-smooth outputs - but i am happiestly married to the m11d 🙂

[graphlex]

Couple of improvements I'd like to see: make it easier to tell (1) which adjustments are not included when you save a profile, and (2) which ones will or won't cause the last saved profile not to come up after the camera is turned off and on.

Now that the 2.6.0 has stabilized things, I look forward to seeing those two things made easier. 

[otto.f]

On 11/10/2025 at 10:39 PM, jaapv said:

Yes; I forgot about that one: breathing technique 

Take a deep breath, exhale slowly, pause a couple of seconds and take the shot. 

including the decisive moment in the pause 😄

Edited 6 hours ago by otto.f