Leica M EV1: The first M with EVF instead of Rangefinder

[Jsung]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Claim down gentleman, let me clearly explain why most of you are angry and why you should or shouldn’t. 

1. Leica Evf M is not a M, yes i agree, it’s a handicap M. Ok? But Leica has every right to make this, you know why? Because not many people will buy a rangefinder, or a big bulky SL. So, you need a product to suit more audiences, yes they need to make money. unless you can pay for their salaries with your once every 5 year purchase

2. for people who should be pissed, is we haven’t seen any innovation in the Leica line up for enthusiasts and collectors, such as the 911 ST. Nothing like that was invented in the last 30 years. Their creamy glowing and Leica look are all gone!! Instead just software rendering. 
 

So my humble 2 cents to Leica, please make a tone of money from this, and invent something old school Leica presents, your modern Noctilux is just way too sharp for me.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[bobtodrick]

1 hour ago, FarbSpieler said:

let’s be honest, this isn’t really an M anymore. The whole point of the M is the mechanical rangefinder and the direct, optical experience that defines it. Once you replace that with an EVF, you’ve essentially built a new camera.

So basically, this is a Q without autofocus that takes M lenses.

Nothing wrong with that, and I’m sure it’ll appeal to plenty of people who like the M look but prefer EVF focusing. But let’s call it what it is: a different camera, not a continuation of the rangefinder lineage.

Except the M1 which had a parallax corrected viewfinder but no rangefinder.

And the various MD's which had neither viewfinder or rangefinder for use on scientific equipment.

They were still called...M's.

[algrove]

No mention of the Viso2 having a slight IBIS built-in and the EV1 has no IBIS built-in as far as specs are concerned.

[pippy]

10 hours ago, hexx said:

There's no innovation. Nothing. Zero......it's really a Q with M mount...

What range of focal lengths are available with a Leica Q?

10mm? 15mm? 16mm? 21mm? 24mm?.........and on and on and on..........

[hexx]

4 minutes ago, pippy said:

What range of focal lengths are available with a Leica Q?

10mm? 15mm? 16mm? 21mm? 24mm?.........and on and on and on..........

I don’t understand your comment

[dante]

8 hours ago, frankchn said:

The actual PD pixels might not exist on this sensor. Sony makes two versions of the IMX455 sensor, one without masked PD pixels (IMX455AQK) and one with (IMX455BQK). I believe the M cameras use the former one, while the Q and SL the latter.

I think they might, since we're seen allegedly leaked pictures of a quasi RF spot in the viewfinder. If not, what a miss.

D

[DenverSteve]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

10 hours ago, Kickstand said:

So - just to clarify - we get a Leica M11-P with no rangefinder, ......... Is the experience of using a Visoflex 2 on an M11 really that bad or am I missing something here?

Not from my experience.  For me, the Visoflex 2 made the M11 much more flexible and dynamic.  The Viso works great and gives one exactly what this new M EV does except now the visoflex is internal.  For me, much ado about nothing.  Once again, Leica has come up with a "new model" that brings with it no camera or photographic advancement.  It gives the Leica impatient something to clammer about until the M-12 pokes its head out of Wetzlar. 

[david strachan]

"Off the Sensor" for focusing will ensure accurate focusing.  Far too many lenses have front or back focus at different apertures, and different distances. In fact all lenses I've used.

I've loved my Leica adventures over the last 13 years...pretty well exclusively. IIIF,  M6 to M8's, and now M-P typ 240.  The last showed, with it's "bolt on" viso, just how badly the rangefinder achieves critical focus compared to the off-the-sensor focusing.

Sure if you are fanatic one can keep having lenses calibrated, and the cameras, for accurate focusing...for variable lens focusing distances and aperture...sadly its just not practical. Especially considering cost and hastle.

 

I welcome Elsie... 😚

 

[pippy]

2 minutes ago, hexx said:

I don’t understand your comment

How so? It's hardly a complex question.

[hexx]

24 minutes ago, pippy said:

How so? It's hardly a complex question.

I don’t understand how your comment relates to mine that’s saying that this is Q with M mount. I’ve no idea what your comment is about. 

Edited yesterday at 01:22 AM by hexx

[Velo-city]

I was quite interested in the idea of this EVF model, but I’ll wait a generation at least - seems to me just a merger of Q3 and M11, and I wasn’t that impressed with many aspects of either.  I still use the q343 occasionally but I don’t particularly like the viewfinder for example, I find it quite uncomfortable and gets dirty as the glass is so close to the eye (the rubber eyepiece is very narrow compared to my other cameras). Also the focus aids aren’t great - I was really hoping they would have somehow come up with a more unique ‘digital rangefinder’ type view or some other clever tech that was rumoured. Nikon Zf type thing but more in the Leica world.

Given the price it’s hard to see how many will sell. It’s not quite rangefinder enough for the diehards and it’s not quite high tech enough for the SL/Q3 type user base.  And it’s expensive considering they took out the entire opto-mechanical rangefinder system which I would suggest Leica use as a justification for the M series being so expensive. 
 

I think they missed a huge opportunity here, and I would say it highlights Leicas lack of expertise in digital r&d/software. If the forum were more open I’d have lots more to say but I know I’ll get singled out and warned/banned if I’m too critical - although others seem to be allowed a little more leeway it seems. 
 

Edited yesterday at 01:20 AM by Velo-city

[hillavoider]

hopefully with the rangefinder removed there will be room for IBIS in the M12 as this cameras future stops here without that 

[IkarusJohn]

I really don’t get the Q references.

[costa43]

4 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Not really.  This camera was always going to be the current M camera, and nothing more - just with the EVF built in.  That opens up using adapted R lenses (including zooms and long telephotos) and close focus lenses; and makes the use of more difficult lenses, like the Noctiluxes, easier wide open.

With every M release, there’s been rage - a meter in the camera; too big and ugly; APS-H, not full frame; noisey shutter release and crap ISO; black & white only? Pointless; too thick; no LCD; 60MP, and on it goes …

Here, the rage is less about what the camera is (an M11, but with an EVF) than about what it isn’t - the fanciful dreaming of posters here who just hadn’t thought it through.  Putting an EVF in an otherwise standard M11 was a huge step for Leica, reluctantly taken.  It was never going to be another range - it’s an M.  The next round, the M12, will have more innovation (heaven forbid), and if the M EV-1 sells, then we might see further development.

It’s a welcome development, and even better everyone’s rangefinder M cameras will keep working after this release.

I agree with you on many points. My initial thought when the rumours leaked was that Leica would play it safe and give us the minimum to see how the market takes to it. It’s only after the rumours gathered momentum that the fantasy started kicking in. On the pricing though, I do think that when you take away the biggest differentiator of an M camera (the rangefinder) and do not offer something unique in return, you turn it into something that can easily be compared to many other cameras when it comes to function, the price then is also far easier to compare. That’s where it doesn’t stack up. 
 

[Eugene Young]

Come on Leica! This price is too much!

Hasselblad X2D ii and 28mm p lens (which gives better photos maybe you disagree though)is cheaper than that of Leica m v1 body.

[pgh]

1 hour ago, Jsung said:

Because not many people will buy a rangefinder, or a big bulky SL

This is true. It’s because of the price though for the most part -  most sane people look at the price of it and go “I could get 3 new Nikons for that and the image quality will be just as good, at the very least” and they’re not wrong. They will say the same with this thing. It’s still 9k. It’s still an obscene price for the average camera buyer. 

[nthomas]

Honestly I think this one will sell pretty good. Here are several TA for this EV1

1. For those old Leica fans but their vision is getting worse day after day.

2 For those young fans who never touch Rf before or those Q series users who would like to enter M-mount society and wide variety choice of lens.

3.For those who hava a dilemma between the Q series and M series, now you have a compromise and elegant option. 

For me? As an old soul living inside, I would grab the black paint series without a doubt. However, the EV1 is quite a fundamental move and I am positive about this. 

[pgh]

28 minutes ago, Velo-city said:

If the forum were more open I’d have lots more to say but I know I’ll get singled out and warned/banned if I’m too critical - although others seem to be allowed a little more leeway it seems

I haven’t seen this. I am largely critical of this almost private equity luxury firm that happen to squirts out cameras next to their outsourced watches now. Air your thoughts. Don’t make political comments or personal attacks, but that’s easy enough when discussing Leicas strategy and technology. The political rule is applied a little differently and vaguely in more philosophical discussions but I think you can safely avoid it with this subject. 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Jsung]

31 minutes ago, pgh said:

This is true. It’s because of the price though for the most part -  most sane people look at the price of it and go “I could get 3 new Nikons for that and the image quality will be just as good, at the very least” and they’re not wrong. They will say the same with this thing. It’s still 9k. It’s still an obscene price for the average camera buyer. 

Price is only an issue if they can’t make sufficient profit to sustain.

If compare it with Q or Nikon or Sony

People can still buy Sony or Nikon, and this is exactly why Leica needed something in that arena so customers can have more options! 

[rramesh]

Leica is a niche player in a market where customers demand the best in traditional cameras (read rangefinder) and manual focus lenses. Leica will never be able to enter a realm of mass-market offering features for mass-market adoption. Their investment in R&D and in-house manufacturing will never be enough.

Their best bet here is to partner with a mass-market camera manufacturer e.g. Nikon. Many users use Nikon camera with Leica M lenses. The Nikon Z series actually works well with M lenses (thinner sensor stack). Of course some will say not so well with wide-angled lenses due to sensor stack and corner smearing. This is where a partnership makes sense.

What if Nikon were to release a line 'Leica model' with necessary sensor adaptation? It will be premier priced, but it will offer all the features users are clamoring for.