Wetzlar Auction Price Estimates seem high as 21% fees have to be added - revalue my Leica collection schedule for insurance?

[wlaidlaw]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If the Wetzlar Auction estimates turn out to be realistic, that would mean a considerable increase in the value of older Leica cameras. I think I probably should increase the declared value of my collection of 37 Leicas and around 50 lenses and keep a print out of the Wetzlar auction catalogue as evidence. The particular one that they show is a 1934 250FF, very similar to mine but estimated to fetch €25,000 to 30,000. I currently have my 250FF listed at £5,000 on my insurance schedule. The other one which may have some value is my M4, a very early production one, the 47th one of the series (1175047), owned by me since new. I have that listed at £1000 but maybe up to around £2500. A red blinds IIIc Stepper from 1941 in perfect working order and excellent cosmetically is listed on my schedule at £800, I think should go up to £2000. My 85/1.5 Summarex (recently had CLA) on my schedule at £1000. Again up to £2000 and so on and so on. These are all covered on my household policy. For all risks worldwide, I have an agreed coverage for any 2 camera bodies and up to any 4 lenses. The increases in value have no benefit for me, as I have no intention of selling any of my collection but my insurance costs will increase.

What most folk are unaware of is the Insurance law of Particular Average. If items are undervalued when being declared on a policy schedule, then any claim pay out will be reduced by the percentage by which the item was undervalued. 

Wilson

[willeica]

3 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

If the Wetzlar Auction estimates turn out to be realistic, that would mean a considerable increase in the value of older Leica cameras. I think I probably should increase the declared value of my collection of 37 Leicas and around 50 lenses and keep a print out of the Wetzlar auction catalogue as evidence. The particular one that they show is a 1934 250FF, very similar to mine but estimated to fetch €25,000 to 30,000. I currently have my 250FF listed at £5,000 on my insurance schedule. The other one which may have some value is my M4, a very early production one, the 47th one of the series (1175047), owned by me since new. I have that listed at £1000 but maybe up to around £2500. A red blinds IIIc Stepper from 1941 in perfect working order and excellent cosmetically is listed on my schedule at £800, I think should go up to £2000. My 85/1.5 Summarex (recently had CLA) on my schedule at £1000. Again up to £2000 and so on and so on. These are all covered on my household policy. For all risks worldwide, I have an agreed coverage for any 2 camera bodies and up to any 4 lenses. The increases in value have no benefit for me, as I have no intention of selling any of my collection but my insurance costs will increase.

What most folk are unaware of is the Insurance law of Particular Average. If items are undervalued when being declared on a policy schedule, then any claim pay out will be reduced by the percentage by which the item was undervalued. 

Wilson

You have to see the results of the auction. Valuations are just that and there are no absolutes as regards value. The value of anything is what another person is prepared to pay for it and amounts obtained at auction for the same item can go up and down. Collectiblend attempts to show an average of auction results. I'll leave the insurance aspects to you, Wilson, but, based on what you say, I am probably well underinsured. 

William 

[zeitz]

3 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

The increases in value have no benefit for me

These are called unrealized gains.  The gains with respect to inflation are what makes the collection of anything feasible, whether its collector cars, guns, art, jewelry, or cameras.  In the US one's house is taxed every year against its current market value, that keeps going up.  It is a brutal tax on unrealized gains.  And the insurance on the house goes up along with the market value.  Insurance laws vary widely by country.  My camera equipment is covered by a collectibles policy.  Each year I update the declared value of the collection.  The insurance company will never pay out more than the declared value.

[dkCambridgeshire]

The 250FF has a known provenance and some desirable original 'furniture' – and is one of the very first 20 production examples. In a previous Leitz Auction No 40, a similar but later 250FF example did not attract any bids. Collectables with 'scarce attributes' can push up demand and sales' £estimates.  Who'd want to be an insurance claim loss adjuster?  "Hmmmm – well the last one failed to attract any bids!!"  But the insurance co. will take your premium.   

[wlaidlaw]

9 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

The 250FF has a known provenance and some desirable original 'furniture' – and is one of the very first 20 production examples. In a previous Leitz Auction No 40, a similar but later 250FF example did not attract any bids. Collectables with 'scarce attributes' can push up demand and sales' £estimates.  Who'd want to be an insurance claim loss adjuster?  "Hmmmm – well the last one failed to attract any bids!!"  But the insurance co. will take your premium.   

My 250 FF with nickel furniture, also has a known provenance. It was originally purchased in 1934 along with a nickel Summar (1933 manufacture) and still with the camera, by the professional photographer John Foster Brigham of Bridlington. It comes with 4 KOOBF cassettes, engraved Brighams. When I finally get it back from Malcolm Taylor, it will have gone through a 7½ year rebuild and will function perfectly, unlike the majority of others, many of which have wind-on, frame counter problems, a weak point on the early FF models. 

Wilson

[nitroplait]

10 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

...it will have gone through a 7½ year rebuild and will function perfectly

If he has used 7.5 years on your camera you'll probably get a bill that's a bit higher than the 25-30.000 Wetzlar estimate.😉

[wlaidlaw]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Just now, nitroplait said:

If he has used 7.5 years on your camera you'll probably get a bill that's a bit higher than the 25-30.000 Wetzlar estimate.😉

Malcolm's bills have always been reasonable for the 30 years I have used his services. His timekeeping, not so much. I am getting somewhat frustrated at the lack of progress. 

Wilson

[nitroplait]

Maybe we should worry about the insurance of our repair techs then? We send the camera out worth a few thousand and while it stays with them, its value increases ten fold.

[pedaes]

10 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

7½ year rebuild

..and counting. It will have added provenance as the last 250 ever rebuilt by the renowned MT.

[dkCambridgeshire]

2 minutes ago, pedaes said:

..and counting. It will have added provenance as the last 250 ever rebuilt by the renowned MT.

Only of it's finished. I'd be requesting photos to show progress. 

[nitroplait]

7 minutes ago, pedaes said:

..and counting. It will have added provenance as the last 250 ever rebuilt by the renowned MT.

Last? Is he retiring?

Let's hope he lives to complete it.

[pedaes]

13 minutes ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

Only of it's finished

Lets be positive and not give Wilson any more anxiety.

[pedaes]

3 minutes ago, nitroplait said:

Is he retiring?

Not sure he will ever retire, but couldn't see him taking on any big projects, or anyone risking it given known timescales. Unless you are close to him (in friendship not in distance!) or Leica themselves with something special.

[Pyrogallol]

A pity Peter Grisaffi is no longer with us. The quickest he repaired a Leica for me, not a 250, was by return of post. I sent it one day, he received it the next day, serviced it and posted it back straight away. I received it back the next day.

[wlaidlaw]

When I was searching for someone to repair my 250FF, everyone said that the only person with the knowledge and a stock of parts, was Malcolm Taylor. He started servicing repairing these when he was the technician at Hove Cameras. I first encountered him there, some 45 years ago, when I had a problem with my new old stock Leicaflex SL2, that Leica UK had been unable to cure. At one point Malcolm said he had 16 different 250 Reporters both FF and GG in for service/repair. 

Wilson