Smogg Posted September 20 Share #1 Posted September 20 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've found another bug in the M11-P firmware. Sometimes it seems like they'll never end. When using highlight-weighted metering, I always used the Exposure preview - Shutter button half-pressed setting. With this setting, the bug isn't noticeable. However, if you change the setting to Permanent, you'll notice that when composing a scene and half-pressing the shutter button, it takes 1 to 5 seconds for the LCD and histogram to change to the correct values (the same as what you'd see in the final image if you fully pressed the shutter button). Slightly recomposing the scene often reduces this time. This indicates either a slow processor, poorly written software, or both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 20 Posted September 20 Hi Smogg, Take a look here One more bug. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
justj Posted September 20 Share #2 Posted September 20 The metering in LV is real-time when using the Permanent setting, with no delay. A half-press of the shutter locks the exposure but does not affect the LV when it is set to Permanent. I just tried it on a M11 maybe M11P is different? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #3 Posted September 20 4 minutes ago, justj said: The metering in LV is real-time when using the Permanent setting, with no delay. A half-press of the shutter locks the exposure but does not affect the LV when it is set to Permanent. I just tried it on a M11 maybe M11P is different? Are you using highlight-weighted metering? I'm getting a very noticeable delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justj Posted September 20 Share #4 Posted September 20 I tried highlight and multi fields, all the same, with no delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #5 Posted September 20 3 minutes ago, justj said: I tried highlight and multi fields, all the same, with no delay. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i3hdbxn4m5u8e87tfc166/20.09.2025-10-06-33.mov?rlkey=eylpoalha1fyqom0b2qewey3h&st=vme8ig4h&dl=0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #6 Posted September 20 The final picture turns out the same and correct regardless of whether I wait until the LV becomes correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justj Posted September 20 Share #7 Posted September 20 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Smogg said: The final picture turns out the same and correct regardless of whether I wait until the LV becomes correct. It seems you half-pressed the shutter to lock the exposure and then recomposed to a brighter area. If I do the same with my M11, the LV remains overexposed as long as I keep the shutter half-pressed. However, if I fully press the shutter, the image becomes completely overexposed. There is something strange about how your M11p behaved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #8 Posted September 20 6 minutes ago, justj said: It seems you half-pressed the shutter to lock the exposure and then recomposed to a brighter area. If I do the same with my M11, the LV remains overexposed as long as I keep the shutter half-pressed. However, if I fully press the shutter, the image becomes completely overexposed. There is something strange about how your M11p behaved. The video shows the moment when I half-press the shutter button (the exposure numbers appear at the bottom), then 2-3 seconds pass before the histogram and screen update. The camera remains virtually still during this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justj Posted September 20 Share #9 Posted September 20 9 minutes ago, Smogg said: The video shows the moment when I half-press the shutter button (the exposure numbers appear at the bottom), then 2-3 seconds pass before the histogram and screen update. The camera remains virtually still during this time. If you set exposure preview to "Permanent" then what you see in LV is what you get. There should not be any change in LV when you half press or full press the shutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #10 Posted September 20 7 minutes ago, justj said: If you set exposure preview to "Permanent" then what you see in LV is what you get. There should not be any change in LV when you half press or full press the shutter. I thought so too until I tried it🤣 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justj Posted September 20 Share #11 Posted September 20 13 minutes ago, Smogg said: I thought so too until I tried it🤣 I'm wondering if other M11P have the same issue. My device is currently in Germany, so I can't test it. However, the M11 I'm using now functions as it should. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #12 Posted September 20 10 minutes ago, justj said: I'm wondering if other M11P have the same issue. My device is currently in Germany, so I can't test it. However, the M11 I'm using now functions as it should. It's scary to imagine that the EVF-M will be based on the M11-P firmware and processor. There will be no alternative to LV mode. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 20 Share #13 Posted September 20 It is just the consequence of dragging all this Rube Goldberg stuff into the M. It is a minimalistic camera and attempting to make it into a camera with as many 2025 bells and whistles as possible crammed in is a recipe for this kind of thing. It is teaching an elephant to walz by dressing it in a tutu and does indeed not bode well for a possible M-EVF. 5 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #14 Posted September 20 4 minutes ago, jaapv said: It is just the consequence of dragging all this Rube Goldberg stuff into the M. It is a minimalistic camera and attempting to make it into a camera with as many 2025 bells and whistles as possible crammed in is a recipe for this kind of thing. It is teaching an elephant to walz by dressing it in a tutu and does indeed not bode well for a possible M-EVF. I agree. The Leica M is expected to be as simple, reliable, and predictable as a carpenter's hammer, but in reality, it's anything but. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 20 Share #15 Posted September 20 Quite. What makes a photograph? A lens, a lighttight box, aperture and shutter. Oh, and a means to aim and focus -and a photographer. The rest is just frippery designed to automate and replace thinking. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted September 20 Share #16 Posted September 20 2 hours ago, Smogg said: The Leica M is expected to be as simple, reliable, and predictable as a carpenter's hammer, but in reality, it's anything but. I've recently used an m10 alot and now an M11. I almost never use Live View. I always use the rangefinder and judge my exposure by the red arrow indicators. That's how I always shot my M6. I agree with jaapv, it's like teaching an elephant to waltz. It isn't buggy camera, just not designed to be used like a Sony or Fuji. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgeenen Posted September 20 Share #17 Posted September 20 @Smogg: With my M11 (not the M11-P) I am not able to recreate the behavior of your M11-P. Once I half press the shutter in permanent preview, the view remains unchanged regardless what I do. When not half-pressing the shutter, the brightness of the picture in the viewfinder is updated immediately (I can see the adjustment "stepping" when I pan between a bright wall and darker furniture). Whatever I tried - the video sequence you posted (the image seems to be too bright, you half-press the shutter and after a second or so the screen image follows, but Auto-ISO setting, exposure time and exposure indicator remain unchanged) cannot be repeated with my M11. Certainly I agree that your M11-P should not behave like that. If it is a firmware bug, a strange combination of settings, or an individual issue of your camera, I cannot judge. You should contact Leica service and describe your observation. It could well be that a factory reset helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #18 Posted September 20 10 minutes ago, Chris W said: I've recently used an m10 alot and now an M11. I almost never use Live View. I always use the rangefinder and judge my exposure by the red arrow indicators. That's how I always shot my M6. I agree with jaapv, it's like teaching an elephant to waltz. It isn't buggy camera, just not designed to be used like a Sony or Fuji. I use LV very rarely, only for precise framing, so this bug doesn't bother me too much. I just thought it necessary to point it out, especially before the release of the EVF-M, the firmware for which will be developed by the same programmers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 20 Share #19 Posted September 20 (edited) 6 hours ago, Smogg said: [...] if you change the setting to Permanent, you'll notice that when composing a scene and half-pressing the shutter button, it takes 1 to 5 seconds for the LCD and histogram to change to the correct values [...] Different experience with my basic M11 + Visoflex 2. When doing what you did, the change is immediate but the preview remains as is permanently. Unsure if it is normal since i never use this setting but suffice it to half press the shutter release to fix the possible issue. Edited September 20 by lct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smogg Posted September 20 Author Share #20 Posted September 20 4 minutes ago, jgeenen said: @Smogg: With my M11 (not the M11-P) I am not able to recreate the behavior of your M11-P. Once I half press the shutter in permanent preview, the view remains unchanged regardless what I do. When not half-pressing the shutter, the brightness of the picture in the viewfinder is updated immediately (I can see the adjustment "stepping" when I pan between a bright wall and darker furniture). Whatever I tried - the video sequence you posted (the image seems to be too bright, you half-press the shutter and after a second or so the screen image follows, but Auto-ISO setting, exposure time and exposure indicator remain unchanged) cannot be repeated with my M11. Certainly I agree that your M11-P should not behave like that. If it is a firmware bug, a strange combination of settings, or an individual issue of your camera, I cannot judge. You should contact Leica service and describe your observation. It could well be that a factory reset helps. I no longer want to fight for the M11's survival. I hope it's not long before the M12 comes out, and then I'll forget the M11 saga like a bad dream. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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