Advice on 24mm needed

[Alexander108]

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I am new to the M system and just got my M10M with a >40y old Summicron 35mm lens that does a fantastic job. I am now considering a 24mm lens in addition to the 35mm. There are different options out there, mainly the very expensive Leica M 24mm 1.4 Summilux ASPH and an older Leica Elmarit-M 2.8/24mm ASPH that can be purchased at a rather low price (low price in terms of Leica, of course).

I started street photography roughly 2y ago with a Ricoh GRIII and then a Leica Q3. I am not sure if I should go for a Summilux or if a f/2.8 is sufficient. With my M10 Monochrom low light requirements to shoot wide open is not an issue, of course. It is about DoF and maybe weight.

Any experiences with either lens would be highly appreciated. Thank you.

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[jgeenen]

The Summilux is a beast of a lens with an exotic filter diameter (series VII, I believe). It might be ok and certainly it allows more flexibility playing with depth of field, but if not used as the main lens, it at least for me is (both price and weight) a little bit of a "overkill" (aka bulk in the camera bag). In the Leica field there is the Elmarit-M 2.8 and the optically superior Elmar-M 3.4. I have no personal experience with either of them. 

Instead, I went with the Zeiss Biogon 2.8/25mm, which is a great performer with a reasonable price. The difference 24mm vs 25mm is not worth debating about. Don't forget, for accurate frame you need an auxiliary finder or the LCD/EVF. I use a Leica 24mm auxiliary finder (you can get them sometimes for affordable prices in brand new condition - mine was created during M8 times and has marks for 24mm on full frame sensors and the M8 sensor). You will not notice the field of view differences between 24 and 25mm. The Zeiss 25mm finder is clearly better (but more bulky and more expensive (sic!))

So, if I were you, I'd try a lower cost 24/25mm option and test it out. You will learn if you like the handling with auxiliary finder (or use the OVF as a guiding approximisation). If it's to your liking, you can at any time sell the 24mm without loss and replace it with bigger or more desireable glas (or go for a different focal length).

[vinicio]

Have a look to ELMAR 24/3.8

i use this with EVF2 on my M10 mono

[Alexander108]

Thank you both. I boght a pre owned Visoflex 020. That should help. 

vor 5 Minuten schrieb vinicio:

Have a look to ELMAR 24/3.8

i use this with EVF2 on my M10 mono

I wonder if f/3.8 might be too limiting compared to f/2.8. Any experiences? Maybe this is only theoretically true. 

I'll have a look at the Zeiss lens. 

Edited August 19 by Alexander108

[lexffm]

Why 24? The 21mm SEM is also an interesting lens if you don't necessarily need a 1.4... Of course you have to point the lens directly at the crowd, but you have to do that with the 24mm too.

[Alexander108]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb lexffm:

Why 24? The 21mm SEM is also an interesting lens if you don't necessarily need a 1.4... Of course you have to point the lens directly at the crowd, but you have to do that with the 24mm too.

This is the choice I came up with. 

[lct]

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2 hours ago, Alexander108 said:

Leica Elmarit-M 2.8/24mm ASPH that can be purchased at a rather low price

Very good lens indeed, I have no experience of it, only its 21/2.8 asph cousin that has the same size and works fine too. I did not buy the Elmarit 24 because i own the Elmar 24/3.8 already. I prefer its smaller size and it is a stellar lens, but i don't shoot in low light with it.

[alainD]

39 minutes ago, Alexander108 said:

This is the choice I came up with. 

If you’ve made your mind on 24mm, then I will second the elmar 24mm f/3.8. It is small, light, and a fantastic performer. On a M10 monochrom, high ISO is not an issue. However, you’ll need either an external optical finder for 24mm and use the telemeter to focus, or use the EVF, or use the rear screen. None of those options are optimum.  When I used that lens on a M11, I chose the external optical finder as the least bad option for me, but your mileage may vary. In the end, I sold it and now I’m using a 28mm. The field of view is not that much smaller and I can use the normal viewfinder. If I need larger, I go to 21mm.

Alain

[Alexander108]

Thank you @alainD. It is not so much about light but the ability to separate objects. I read somewhere that the 24/3.8 is more for landscape and architecture and less capable in street photography.

[alainD]

6 minutes ago, Alexander108 said:

Thank you @alainD. It is not so much about light but the ability to separate objects. I read somewhere that the 24/3.8 is more for landscape and architecture and less capable in street photography.

What kind of separation are you looking for? Depth of field? That will be hard with a 24mm, even at f/1.4. Foreground/Background? Then it is about getting close to your subject. Any 24mm will do. I used my 24/3.8 for street photography AND landscape, with no issues whatsoever.

[Loop Skywalker]

The Elmar-M 3.8/ 24mm is a fantastic lens. If you ask me, best 24mm out there!

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Edited August 19 by Loop Skywalker

[WideAround]

I have probed the Elmar 24/3,8 at a Leica dealer. This is a great lens with very low distortion. Try it. 

[Olaf_ZG]

1 hour ago, WideAround said:

I have probed the Elmar 24/3,8 at a Leica dealer. This is a great lens with very low distortion. Try it. 

This. Low distortion, great for people shots. 

[Alexander108]

Thank you all for your time to answer. Any thoughts on the Zeiss 25mm F/2.8 Biogon T* ZM? This is half the price but seems to be a viable option.

[MarkP]

The Zeiss 25 is a fabulous lens but sold it because I preferred the 3.8/24 Elmar.  It  is an extraordinary lens and probably underrated only because 24mm is a less used focal length in Leicaland as.  Check this thread (where I have also posted photographs). 

 

 

[Alexander108]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb MarkP:

The Zeiss 25 is a fabulous lens but sold it because I preferred the 3.8/24 Elmar.  It  is an extraordinary lens and probably underrated only because 24mm is a less used focal length in Leicaland as.  Check this thread (where I have also posted photographs). 

 

 

Thank you. This is very helpful 

[Ernstk]

I would urge you to look at 21 mm lenses too. I use the Elmarit M 2.8/21 and I love it. The Super Elmar 21 also gets great reviews.

Ernst

[BWColor]

I use the 21mm Super Elmer with 35mm and 90mm.  Also go 21/50/90.  The 21mm SEM is a fantastic lens with little distortion.  I use a Zeiss viewfinder with film and Visoflex 2 with my M11M.  Forgive me, but I’m a bid fan of 21mm.  The Zeiss 21mm f/4.5 Biogon-c ZM is another fantastic lens with Zeiss contrast/micro-contrast*.  I can’t tell you which I prefer.  The Leica is a bit prettier, but the Zeiss is much less expensive.   The 90mm Macro-Elmer f/4 is a collapsible ultra sharp option at 90mm.  For my A7CR I use 90/40/24/17mm in mostly small autofocus lenses where my 24mm f/1.4 GM is my primary lens, so I’m also a fan of 24mm.  24mm is easier to master/use than the 21mm.  In ‘M’ mount the 25mm Zeiss is highly praised.  *That said, Biogons are great on film and the M11, but not on previous Leica digital generations.

Edited August 20 by BWColor
Emphasis

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[Alexander108]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb BWColor:

I use the 21mm Super Elmer with 35mm and 90mm.  Also go 21/50/90.  The 21mm SEM is a fantastic lens with little distortion.  I use a Zeiss viewfinder with film and Visoflex 2 with my M11M.  Forgive me, but I’m a bid fan of 21mm.  The Zeiss 21mm f/4.5 Biogon-c ZM is another fantastic lens with Zeiss contrast/micro-contrast*.  I can’t tell you which I prefer.  The Leica is a bit prettier, but the Zeiss is much less expensive.   The 90mm Macro-Elmer f/4 is a collapsible ultra sharp option at 90mm.  For my A7CR I use 90/40/24/17mm in mostly small autofocus lenses where my 24mm f/1.4 GM is my primary lens, so I’m also a fan of 24mm.  24mm is easier to master/use than the 21mm.  In ‘M’ mount the 25mm Zeiss is highly praised.  *That said, Biogons are great on film and the M11, but not on previous Leica digital generations.

Why wouldn't the Biogon be great on an M10M? BTW 21mm is not really an option for me. That's why I'm looking into the 24/25mm space.

Edited August 20 by Alexander108

[BWColor]

Bastian’s Review .. Read Conclusion

I jumped from film to an M11 Monochrom, so I haven’t personal experience regarding non-BSI sensor peripheral color issues.  I have, or have had 21mm and both 35mm Biogon ZMs.. not 25mm..I prefer the f/2.8 (‘c’) version in 35mm.

Edited August 20 by BWColor