Is a new MP worth it?

[pgh]

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I sort of agonize about even starting such a discussion, knowing how personal and subjective this can be - but I know there is expertise here that may help. Lately I’ve been wanting to get back to shooting 35mm, and I need a body for that. I’ve got a stable of M digitals and the lenses I need already. I used to use M6’s for awhile and quite enjoyed them, regrettably selling them about a decade ago. As is often noted, the viewfinder wasn’t perfect in all conditions, but it was pretty good for me generally. I really had no complaints with my M6 cameras.

It would hurt a lot to spring for an MP - then again photography is all I’ve really indulged in for most of my life, I would often joke (but speak honestly) that the camera I carried was worth more than my car. This wasn’t because my camera was particularly nice. 

Not really being a collector or a historian, are the old film cameras really made that much better than the new? I want a meter, I’m not getting an M4. Is the MP really a finely produced mechanical piece in line with the old stuff or is it as finicky and lacking in finishing and quality control as I have experienced with the digital M’s? The warranty sounds nice, but having to mess with problems out of the box (again) could be enough to kill off my interest entirely. 

I like the idea of getting something new, from the start and having it be in the family, and passing it down to my son potentially - if he were ever interested. It’s silly but that’s worth something to me. How much I am not sure, but I don’t think that works with digital cameras, even my beloved M10-D.

I’ve never bought a new film camera in my whole life!  Let’s say I am now in a place where I could afford an MP new, but I am still quite price sensitive. My local shop has a nice enough M6, late 90’s production (not TTL though) for half the price, but there are a few things about it I don’t love (I would get over them in minutes, I am sure). Will the MP potentially have greater longevity due to its current production? Is it more likely to be free from issues as a 30 year old perfectly functioning M6? Am I going to get scratched negatives out the gate? Every Leica I’ve bought new (m8, m10, SL2) has needed come out of the box with problems that needed to be addressed, so I’ve opted to buy used with digital since then - which has been much smoother! This is my hesitation with buying a new MP - aside from the extra cash. 

Thoughts? 

[TomB_tx]

I've always felt the modern MP is mainly marketing hype with small detail changes compared to an M6. The new M6 has the finder improvements of the MP, and as I prefer the M6 wind & rewind I'd consider a new M6 over an MP. I've never had problems with the new Leica gear I've bought, so I tend to dismiss concerns about that.

However, the old M6 finder can be upgraded with the MP improvements. A few years back I had the finder of the M6 I bought in 1985 upgraded, and while I used it for decades without complaint, the improvement is real. I also recently added a used M6 with .85 finder (for my aging eyes) and plan to have DAG upgrade it as well.

For the cost savings on my retirement budget that's the path I'd choose: find a nice condition old M6 and have it serviced and upgraded by DAG.

I see your location is "Great Lakes" - I bought my M4 while in college in the U.P. in 1968.
 

[LocalHero1953]

I bought first a used M3 in 1981, changed it quickly for a M2 (both 25-30 years old), which I sold to buy a new M9, replaced that with a M240, which was sold a few years ago with a digital M replacement. Since then I have acquired a nice used M4 (56 years old) from a forum member, and a new black paint MP (all the others, except the M9, were silver chrome).

I have not noticed any significant difference in apparent build quality in the hand, nor in use, after allowing for age. The MP does not scratch negatives.

Those are my facts. The rest of the decision making process is up to you🙂.

Edited Wednesday at 04:47 PM by LocalHero1953

[rmueller]

Hi,

I sold some digital stuff to fund a new M-A four years ago and last year I got a new black paint MP. They both work properly, no scratches, no quirks. I think this is all I need in 35mm space for the rest of my days. Can't even tell if I like the M-A more or the MP. I carry a light meter with me anyway, so not really a differentiator. I intentionally did not buy the M6 because of the red dot and against all odds, I prefer the rewind mechanism of the M-A and MP, has something contemplative IMO.

Really hard to give advise here, my thought process was that new would give me some assurance I can get it fixed if it's broken. 

Best Regards

Ralf

[misteracng]

If you have the money, I think the MP or the new M6 is the way to go, they are essentially the same internally. Current production so service will will no issue for many years. That said they are really expensive now with the price increases. Good condition used MPs are the way to go. Without he light meter really opens up options, the M3/M4 were really made to a quality that even the current cameras cannot match I think. A small cheap hot shoe meter solves the meter problem easily. 

[plaidshirts]

I would treat the MP like I would a car. Instead of buying a brand new copy, consider buying a 1-2 year old, lightly used one at substantial savings.

If the camera has or had issues like backplate scratching film, it would have been repaired or still be under warranty.

[pgh]

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35 minutes ago, plaidshirts said:

I would treat the MP like I would a car. Instead of buying a brand new copy, consider buying a 1-2 year old, lightly used one at substantial savings.

If the camera has or had issues like backplate scratching film, it would have been repaired or still be under warranty.

This is definitely my instinct if I go that route, however I would like to if possible buy from my local shop. Really trying to support them when I can and since they started carrying Leica it's hard not to. But, they have no used MP's, just the used M6 and a brand new MP at the stupid (thanks Donald) new price! 

[FrozenInTime]

I upgraded from my original M6 to a MP only a couple of years ago - the viewfinder improvements were worth it, and the gears run smoother than the 20+ year old M6. I have not seen gate scratching, but I did return the first camera for a cosmetic fault  near the rewind knob. This is the camera that will seem me through another 20 years.

I am a bit suspicious of Leica's MP production this year; and have been tracking it for a few months. It seems to be at very low levels, with both the black and silver camera not showing  in on-hand in-store availability, and frequently being un-order-able, only to pop back up for a day as order-able  ( but not in-store). Leica may be diverting resources to other special edition cameras, or even planning to discontinue the current models.

However Leica do seem to be making a noise about film ( Monopan 50, and a new in-house darkroom at Wetzlar ), so I think they are up to something : this may be nothing, a limited run with 100-year engravings, or even a revised model with 43mm frame lines - we may have to wait until October to find out.

[pgh]

Yea my local shop having a black MP seems rather uncommon at the moment, part of the consideration I suppose.
 

But 43mm frame lines? Is that a real possibility? That gives me pause, though that might also mean a new lens, which I’m sure would be out of my budget. I’m also not sure about splitting the difference between my always used 35/50 way of working. I’m not sure how useful I’d find it - on the other hand, if I could trade in 2 focal lengths for one, well…I tend to mostly shoot 50mm vertically and 35mm horizontally. 

I’m not sure - feels like it might be too tight and too wide at the same time. 

[FrozenInTime]

17 minutes ago, pgh said:

Yea my local shop having a black MP seems rather uncommon at the moment, part of the consideration I suppose.
 

But 43mm frame lines? Is that a real possibility? That gives me pause, though that might also mean a new lens, which I’m sure would be out of my budget. I’m also not sure about splitting the difference between my always used 35/50 way of working. I’m not sure how useful I’d find it - on the other hand, if I could trade in 2 focal lengths for one, well…I tend to mostly shoot 50mm vertically and 35mm horizontally. 

I’m not sure - feels like it might be too tight and too wide at the same time. 

The only clue to a 43mm is one leaked image of a remarkably compact Noctilux speed lens that had depth of field markings corresponding to neither 35 mm or 50mm, but somewhere between the two. The image source also went to the length of painting out the focal length markings. A Noctilux f/1.2 lens would certainly be at the upper price point,  but there are historical precedence for 40/2 lenses - so not impossible to imagine such might follow.

Buying a MP now is still a good conservative bet, given it has provided everything desired for many decades; what the future holds is unknown, and Leica could even mess up a MP 'upgraded' or discontinue it in favour of the M6 only.

p.s. another reason I sold my classic M6, after many years of good service, was to avoid long term switch and ISO dial contact ware, flex-circuit and plastic  embrittlement failures.

[250swb]

Forget about it for three months, then whatever comes into your head (if it is ever recalled) will be the way to go. 
 

The difference between 35mm and 50mm lenses is usually addressed by taking three steps forward or three back, a possible 43mm in between lens by letting the wind blow you one way or another. Too many irrelevant things to worry about in other words. Just buy a Nikon FM and a couple of lenses to test the water with film again.

[earleygallery]

The meter in the older M6 cannot currently be repaired if it fails (correct me if I’m wrong). 
 

The M6 TTL refers to TTL flash metering, an M6 or MP has TTL metering.

I would check out other dealers for a used MP or (current version) M6 but if you prefer new then go for the version you prefer, they’re basically the same camera.

[Crem]

6 hours ago, pgh said:

I sort of agonize about even starting such a discussion, knowing how personal and subjective this can be - but I know there is expertise here that may help. Lately I’ve been wanting to get back to shooting 35mm, and I need a body for that. I’ve got a stable of M digitals and the lenses I need already. I used to use M6’s for awhile and quite enjoyed them, regrettably selling them about a decade ago. As is often noted, the viewfinder wasn’t perfect in all conditions, but it was pretty good for me generally. I really had no complaints with my M6 cameras.

It would hurt a lot to spring for an MP - then again photography is all I’ve really indulged in for most of my life, I would often joke (but speak honestly) that the camera I carried was worth more than my car. This wasn’t because my camera was particularly nice. 

Not really being a collector or a historian, are the old film cameras really made that much better than the new? I want a meter, I’m not getting an M4. Is the MP really a finely produced mechanical piece in line with the old stuff or is it as finicky and lacking in finishing and quality control as I have experienced with the digital M’s? The warranty sounds nice, but having to mess with problems out of the box (again) could be enough to kill off my interest entirely. 

I like the idea of getting something new, from the start and having it be in the family, and passing it down to my son potentially - if he were ever interested. It’s silly but that’s worth something to me. How much I am not sure, but I don’t think that works with digital cameras, even my beloved M10-D.

I’ve never bought a new film camera in my whole life!  Let’s say I am now in a place where I could afford an MP new, but I am still quite price sensitive. My local shop has a nice enough M6, late 90’s production (not TTL though) for half the price, but there are a few things about it I don’t love (I would get over them in minutes, I am sure). Will the MP potentially have greater longevity due to its current production? Is it more likely to be free from issues as a 30 year old perfectly functioning M6? Am I going to get scratched negatives out the gate? Every Leica I’ve bought new (m8, m10, SL2) has needed come out of the box with problems that needed to be addressed, so I’ve opted to buy used with digital since then - which has been much smoother! This is my hesitation with buying a new MP - aside from the extra cash. 

Thoughts? 

I opted for two new MPs because the price of clean/used M6 bodies is fairly high these days. I also wanted the upgraded MP viewfinder, the solid metal film advance lever, and I didn't want to deal with old electronics and a CLA. All those things would have been on top of the cost of buying a used M6.

On a plus note, there is now a 3rd party replacement M6 classic circuit board so I'm less concerned about the M6 these days. Details on the M6 classic board:  https://petapixel.com/2024/11/19/a-new-light-meter-for-the-old-leica-m6/ 

As much as I love my MP's, I wouldn't buy into anything related to mechanical perfection. Both of my MPs have had problems. One was built in 2020 and the other in 2024. Both have been to DAG to sort things out. I opted for DAG over the warranty because I personally trust him more than Leica when it comes to film bodies.

[hillavoider]

my MP is my favorite Leica purchase to date, once you forget about the crazy price its all good 

 

[pgh]

2 hours ago, 250swb said:

Forget about it for three months, then whatever comes into your head (if it is ever recalled) will be the way to go. 
 

The difference between 35mm and 50mm lenses is usually addressed by taking three steps forward or three back, a possible 43mm in between lens by letting the wind blow you one way or another. Too many irrelevant things to worry about in other words. Just buy a Nikon FM and a couple of lenses to test the water with film again.

The difference in the lens is more than this. I've used them for 20 years. The perspective and rendering are different - it's not just about the magnification into the scene. Not to mention in situations I photograph going forward or backward is often enough not an option. Anyways, a 43mm is curious to me because why wouldn't a novel FL in between what I already use not be?  

As for the forget about it rule - I'm with you there - the problem is I've been stewing on this for a good 10 months now....I still use my Rolleis so film itself isn't unfamiliar. (And I shoot with digital M's every day just about)

[pgh]

47 minutes ago, Crem said:

I opted for two new MPs because the price of clean/used M6 bodies is fairly high these days. I also wanted the upgraded MP viewfinder, the solid metal film advance lever, and I didn't want to deal with old electronics and a CLA. All those things would have been on top of the cost of buying a used M6.

On a plus note, there is now a 3rd party replacement M6 classic circuit board so I'm less concerned about the M6 these days. Details on the M6 classic board:  https://petapixel.com/2024/11/19/a-new-light-meter-for-the-old-leica-m6/ 

As much as I love my MP's, I wouldn't buy into anything related to mechanical perfection. Both of my MPs have had problems. One was built in 2020 and the other in 2024. Both have been to DAG to sort things out. I opted for DAG over the warranty because I personally trust him more than Leica when it comes to film bodies.

What issues did you have? Unfortunately a new Leica out of the box with problems... well I'm 3 for 3 there. Part of my reticence. Though I think my shop would sort me out, it's the hassle I'm not too thrilled with possibly encountering. 

[Stuart Richardson]

I bought a new MP in 2002 and after a few rolls it developed a shutter capping problem and ruined most of the rolls I shot with it on a month long trip I took it on. I also had a Konica Hexar RF and Hexar AF (that one stayed home). The RF did not have any problems, so thankfully I still have photos from the trip, as it was a very meaningful one to me. I later bought an M7 a la carte in 2005, and that has also never really been 100% reliable. First the ISO would jump around, which they attributed to the DX contacts. They eventually switched to optical contacts. I have not used it in two years because the ISO problem returned and I have not wanted to spend a thousand euros and wait more than a year to get it fixed. I will have to do it eventually. It is a phenomenal camera when it is working. The only truly reliable analog M's I have had over the past 25 years were the M6 Classic and M3. Personally, I would not pay the prices that Leica wants for their analog cameras anymore. To me at least, they are just not that good. I have said it in other threads, but the Hexar AF is the best film Leica I have ever used. The lens is nearly the same as a 35mm Summicron, it never misses focus or exposure, it is totally silent, and it is discreet and they can be had for well under 1000 dollars in good condition. If you want lens flexibility, the RF is also a worthy contender in M mount. They are worth consideration. As a child of a father who instilled a love of photography in me, I would say the M6 he gave me in my 30s, while amazing, is far less sentimental to me than the old Canon F1 he gave me to learn on, and both are far less important to me than the time he spent showing my sister and I slide shows in the living room, talking about how to read the light, and just spending time with us out in the world doing things together. 

Edited yesterday at 12:58 AM by Stuart Richardson

[Don Flynn]

5 hours ago, earleygallery said:

The meter in the older M6 cannot currently be repaired if it fails (correct me if I’m wrong). 
 

The M6 TTL refers to TTL flash metering, an M6 or MP has TTL metering.

I would check out other dealers for a used MP or (current version) M6 but if you prefer new then go for the version you prefer, they’re basically the same camera.

Amsterdam Camera Repair has developed a replacement circuit board for the M6 "Classic", in the US DAG has access to them from my understanding. The M6 TTL doesn't have the replacement boards, Leica no longer makes those.   

[Don Flynn]

8 hours ago, pgh said:

This is definitely my instinct if I go that route, however I would like to if possible buy from my local shop. Really trying to support them when I can and since they started carrying Leica it's hard not to. But, they have no used MP's, just the used M6 and a brand new MP at the stupid (thanks Donald) new price! 

How much is the used M-6 and is it the "Classic" or TTL version. If the former and it's around $3K US then it I would buy it, have DAG do a service overhaul for $590 total on it and have a good M6. I was facing this myself this year, I wanted a 2022 M6 but when I found out Amsterdam Camera Repair was making replacement meter boards.

I was able to get 2 used nice M-6 "Classics", have DAG overhaul both and only spend a couple more $100 bucks than I would have buying 1 new 2022 M6.

2 is better than 1. I can shoot the hell out of 1 and have a spare M6 I know will be ready to shoot when needed

 

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Look here: Leica M

[Crem]

5 hours ago, pgh said:

What issues did you have? Unfortunately a new Leica out of the box with problems... well I'm 3 for 3 there. Part of my reticence. Though I think my shop would sort me out, it's the hassle I'm not too thrilled with possibly encountering. 

Both of my MPs had sticky frame lines masks. I would put a lens on the body, move focus to infinity, then move it to min focus. Somewhat randomly, the frame lines would stick. Then randomly jump into the correct position. On the 2024 they froze up completely after ~1 year. DAG mentioned something about Leica putting oil where it shouldn't go and that over time the masks get gummed up. The 2020 would sometimes stick after ~4 years so I had DAG sort it out.

Second issue I had was dust in the viewfinder on the 2020 right out of the box. All film Leicas will eventually get dust, but straight out of the box when new? Unacceptable to me, but I dealt with it as it didn't impact shooting. This was easily fixed by DAG.

Third issue is the 2024 came with this absolutely crap slotted battery cover. The paint literally pealed right off revealing the brass underneath it. I'm not talking about brassing in the normal sense. I mean the paint just came right off. It's like they used the wrong paint that had no ability to stick to the metal as it came off in one giant piece like peeling a banana. The design of the 2024's slotted cover was different from the 2020. The 2020 has no such issue.

Fourth issue is the 2024 did NOT come with the leatherette battery cover (only the poorly painted slotted one). I worked with Leica customer service and my dealer to sort this out and they shipped me one. I have a forum thread on it somewhere, but the summary is that the leatherette battery cover doesn't meet USA regulations. So they stopped shipping those here. Fortunately Leica did the right thing, but I do wonder how many people never got one.

Fifth issue is the 2020 has a bottom plate that doesn't fit tight on the right hand side. When gripping the camera firmly, I can feel the plate slide around a bit forward/back. I'm 95% sure the problem is a defect in the plate. I haven't bothered to deal with it because there are no light leaks.

I won't go into the issues I've had with other Leica products (M11 & Steel Rim Reissue), but in general I do not trust their quality control. I buy Leica for the shooting experience which I think is the best in the world. The quality control and repair times over the last few years have been absolutely unacceptable.

 

Edited yesterday at 05:58 AM by Crem