Leica I model accessory shoe shape

[samiba]

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I am puzzled.

I have several Leica I model a and model c.

The shape of the accessory varies. There is the round type and the square type. A 1929 Ia has a square type shoe, a 1930 has a round type of shoe and vice versa.

The round type is older as far as I know. When was there the change in design of the accessory shoe? Is that documented anywhere? Does anyone know?

Thank you for your help on this matter.

Cheers,

Michael 

 

Edited July 17 by samiba

[samiba]

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[Erik van Straten]

I have model 1A No.58734 wich has still a round shoe. Model ll is the first Leica with a square shoe afaik. The square shoe is more solid, maybe therefore all the later models  have them.

Edited July 17 by Erik van Straten

[nf3996]

I have two Leica I (Model A) cameras, nos 28077 and 43675, both from 1930 and both with round accessory shoes. I also have a Leica I (Model C), no 65960 from 1931 - this has a square accessory shoe.

Alan

[samiba]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb nf3996:

I have two Leica I (Model A) cameras, nos 28077 and 43675, both from 1930 and both with round accessory shoes. I also have a Leica I (Model C), no 65960 from 1931 - this has a square accessory shoe.

Alan

Very interesting.  I wonder if we will get down to dates when the round ones finally weren't used anymore.

[jerzy]

round acc shoe was good for Fodis ,etc, but Torpedo Viewer went better with square. And this is why round acc shoe were sometimes replaced with square.

From my archive : 
round: 49665, 53325, 56325, 57969, 58734, 
square: 53348, 58816, 64105, 68251
Conclusion that change was between 58734 and 58816 is too vague to be true, but I think it was around this time.
 

[SpotmaticSP]

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61968 from 1931.

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[samiba]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb jerzy:

round acc shoe was good for Fodis ,etc, but Torpedo Viewer went better with square. And this is why round acc shoe were sometimes replaced with square.

From my archive : 
round: 49665, 53325, 56325, 57969, 58734, 
square: 53348, 58816, 64105, 68251
Conclusion that change was between 58734 and 58816 is too vague to be true, but I think it was around this time.
 

Thanks Jerzy 😊 

[willeica]

3 hours ago, jerzy said:

 Torpedo Viewer went better with square. And this is why round acc shoe were sometimes replaced with square.

 

I think this is key. The square holder was often put in to replace the round model. I have a large number of I Model As and the situation varies a lot and not just by SN progression. There was also overlap with the I Model C. I have recently acquired the 5th ever I Model C (Non Std, of course), No 37284 from 1930, and it has the round shoe. It was returned in late 1930 and it came back with the depth of field scale on the lens, but they did not change the shoe. If I can find the time I will have a look at some of my I Model As. The best you can always say with early Leicas is that generally such and such applied from a certain date or serial number. Based on a discussion I had with some dealers in Wetzlar a few weeks ago, I Model As in absolutely original condition are very rare indeed. I have maybe 15 or more I Model As and I suspect that a very high percentage of them are not wholly original with shutter buttons and depth of field scales being common changes along with the shoe. 

William 

[Pyrogallol]

A subject I have not seen discussed anywhere is the question of who designed the accessory shoe and when ?

The accessory shoe seems to have been a universal fitting across many camera manufacturers but no one seems to have received the credit for inventing it?

[samiba]

Am 17.7.2025 um 23:35 schrieb Pyrogallol:

A subject I have not seen discussed anywhere is the question of who designed the accessory shoe and when ?

The accessory shoe seems to have been a universal fitting across many camera manufacturers but no one seems to have received the credit for inventing it?

The accessory shoe appeared on the earliest Leica prototypes (Ur-Leica, 1913–1914), and by the time of the commercial release of the Leica I in 1925, it was a standard feature. The design and dimensions of this shoe have changed very little since, later evolving into the “cold shoe” term after electrical contacts for flash (the hot shoe) were introduced decades later.

The inventory is not clear, but many hints show in the direction of Oscar Barnack. 

[willeica]

3 hours ago, samiba said:

The accessory shoe appeared on the earliest Leica prototypes (Ur-Leica, 1913–1914), and by the time of the commercial release of the Leica I in 1925, it was a standard feature. The design and dimensions of this shoe have changed very little since, later evolving into the “cold shoe” term after electrical contacts for flash (the hot shoe) were introduced decades later.

The inventory is not clear, but many hints show in the direction of Oscar Barnack. 

 Today there is actually an ISO standard for the hot shoe https://www.iso.org/standard/36330.html . With the UR-Leica the shoe held the viewfinder apparatus. There were similar mountings used for viewfinders on folding cameras from around that period, but I have no idea if there was a common mount size, but, at a guess, I would say that there was not. In the earliest Leicas the shoe was mainly used either to hold a rangefinder or a viewfinder. You are right that from then on the size was standard. The square format was considered to be more stable with the VIDOM and it became the standard used by Leitz. Some cameras which started out with round shoes had them replaced when they went back to Wetzlar.

I agree that the finger points towards Barnack as regards the dimensions used by Leitz, but the real mystery is how and when did this become the standard? This is probably a more interesting question than the shape. I would suggest that anyone looking into this subject should also look at the products made by Goerz and Kodak, perhaps others. 

William 

[SpotmaticSP]

To add further ideas to this topic: I recently saw an early FODIS with a serial number in the 2xxx range, with its original leather case included. Nothing special of course, but I saw that a round accessory shoe was mounted to one of the ends of the FODIS (as to not lose it). Maybe the accompanying camera was upgraded to a rectangular shoe (and another rangefinder such as a FOKOS which might work better on the rectangular shoe?)

Edited July 22 by SpotmaticSP

[Carlos cruz]

In neighbouring thread Roland Zwiers shared a photo of prototype of panoramic “leica” camera that was developed in April 1912, I don’t know if the picture of said camera shows it as it was in 1912 or later but on the far right of top case one can see an accessory shoe. Hard to tell if it’s round or square one. 
Just two cents I thought may be useful 

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Edited July 22 by Carlos cruz

[willeica]

On 7/22/2025 at 5:14 PM, Carlos cruz said:

In neighbouring thread Roland Zwiers shared a photo of prototype of panoramic “leica” camera that was developed in April 1912, I don’t know if the picture of said camera shows it as it was in 1912 or later but on the far right of top case one can see an accessory shoe. Hard to tell if it’s round or square one. 
Just two cents I thought may be useful 

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Here is a panoramic image created with this camera. The image is in the Leica Archive, but I don't know where the camera currently resides.

William 

[romanus53]

The note on the paper says that the camera was lost during end of WW2.

[samiba]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb romanus53:

The note on the paper says that the camera was lost during end of WW2.

Wrong, after WWI. Interalliierte Kontrollkommission.

[romanus53]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb samiba:

Wrong, after WWI. Interalliierte Kontrollkommission.

Right, sorry typo😉

[Newby]

On 7/17/2025 at 1:16 PM, SpotmaticSP said:

61968 from 1931.

Hey there. I have same model with no. 61687. Was my wife’s father’s. Also wondering if you could point me in the right direction as to manual and perhaps rangefinders.  Will need minor cleaning. Being a complete newby, but wanting to learn,  I saw yours and thought perhaps you could point the way or share anything else relevant! Thanks in advance. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[samiba]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Newby:

Hey there. I have same model with no. 61687. Was my wife’s father’s. Also wondering if you could point me in the right direction as to manual and perhaps rangefinders.  Will need minor cleaning. Being a complete newby, but wanting to learn,  I saw yours and thought perhaps you could point the way or share anything else relevant! Thanks in advance. 

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You have highjacked my thread, wrong group.

But nevertheless, you will find an manual on Butkus.org take the one for Leica III, loading and winding etc is the same except no rangefinder. Rangefinder: look for Leica FOKOS for example gets popped into the accessory shoe.