50mm 2.4 Summarit vs 50mm 1.4 Summilux ASPH

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Hi there,

Any one have experience with both the 50mm 2.4 (or 2.5) Summarit and 50mm 1.4 Summilux ASPH (v1 or v2)?

I have the 50/1.4 Summilux ASPH v2 (close focus) and love it, but I mainly shoot environmental portraits and reportage, so most often shoot around f/2.8. I shoot exclusively on M10 Monochrom, so low light at f/2.8 is rarely a problem with the high iso of the M10M.

So, my question is, how do 50mm 2.4 Summarit compare to 50mm 1.4 Summilux ASPH from f/2.8 and smaller? Especially in the closer focus range 0.8m - 2m. Is there a discernible difference in rendering or would one be hard pressed to tell a difference?

The size and weight savings of the 50/2.4 is tempting, but I don’t want to “downgrade” in IQ and image look. 

My main lens is the 24/3.8 Elmar-M ASPH. with 50mm being my secondary lens (I shoot two lenses only). 😊 So, the closest 50mm match in rendering to the 24/3.8 would be ideal.

Thank you!

[jaapv]

Well, those are two quite different lenses, with the 50 Summilux ash an amazingly good lens and the Summarit an underrated lens, but more of an excellent entry one,  certainly not a downgrade.  However, the more you stop down the closer in performance all lenses get. As for rendering, any 50 mm will be different from any 24 mm. I don't think that you will miss much for your purpose with the Summarit.

But you are severely limiting yourself:  Look here.

[adan]

At f/2.8, the Summilux 50 ASPH shows better MTF than the Summarit at f/2.4. Whereas they are about equal at their respective wide-open apertures (small edge to the Summarit).

This is fairly normal for a fast lens stopped down vs. a native f/2.4-2.8 lens of the same focal length wide-open - simply other priorities for a slower lens in the first place (size, weight, price, etc.)

The Summarit also will not focus quite as close as the Summilux (0.8m vs. 0.7m or a bit closer, and the Summilux has a floating element for better close-up resolution) - may be a factor in portraits, and was certainly intentional to make the Summarit a bit less competitively-desirable than the main-line M lenses. (It is exactly the reason I skipped the 50 Summarit, even though I was quite impressed with the imaging overall and the f/2.4 aperture was adequate for most things.)

The 24 Elmar is rather different from either of the 50s, especially as to corner performance, which is quite high and close to "linear" with the center performance, even wide-open. Indicating it was designed from the get-go for, say, landscape-type or architectural use. A "view-camera" lens for the Barnack-format.

Its MTF does not drop below 60% in any part of the picture, or at any aperture!

The trade-off, of course, is that it is an additional stop slower yet (f/3.8) - but at nearly the same size as the 50s. Such is the jigsaw puzzle of lens design.

I would say that either of the 50s would pair well with the Elmar - at Elmar apertures - in terms of overall rendering (color, contrast, resolution). They are all Peter Karbe designs of virtually the same era (2006/7/8).

The Summarit will offer comparable handling with the 24 (size and weight).

But the Summilux will offer significant advantages in ability to blur portrait backgrounds, shoot a bit closer, and work in dimmer light, without falling behind the Summarit at any point.

Your call.

Edited July 12 by adan

[Guest]

Thank you, Adan. Extremely helpful description and assessment. This is very much appreciated.

[GG007GG]

I own the Summarit 50mm f/2.5 and absolutely love it. It's tiny, super lightweight, and has a smooth, very short focus throw, which makes it a really quick 50mm to handle.

Personally, I prefer the design of the 50mm f/2.5 over the 50mm f/2.4.

The f/2.5 has a 39mm filter thread, while the f/2.4 uses 46mm. If you're using the 50mm f/2.4 together with the 24mm f/3.8, they can share the same 46mm filters — a practical advantage.

In terms of rendering, the Summarit sits somewhere between my 50mm Summilux ASPH (black chrome) and the 50mm Summilux V3 (with the 46mm filter thread). It's also relatively close to the APO Summicron. The bokeh balls are naturally a bit smaller compared to the Summilux lenses but still have plenty of character, combined with a very organic overall look. Not too clinical, and not overly "character-heavy" either — a really nice balance.

As for the minimum focus distance of 0.7m vs. 0.8m — that doesn’t really matter to me. I always carry a +1 close-up lens anyway, which works just fine for the rare situations where I want to get a little closer.

Here are some sample images for a bokeh comparison at a distance of about one meter of the Summarit 50mm 2.5, 50mm Summilux V3 (46mm Filter), 50mm Summilux ASPH black chrome) and 50mm APO Summicron.

 

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[GG007GG]

The Summarit 50mm f/2.5 renders images very naturally and is sharp with excellent contrast, even wide open. In the corners, it’s nearly as sharp wide open as the Summilux stopped down to f/2.8.

It’s hard to make a direct comparison between the two. The Summarit is much closer in character to the Summicrons and has a different way of rendering images. While lenses like the Summilux and Noctilux on one end, and the APO-Summicron on the other, tend to add something to the image—be it a dreamy character or with the APO an almost unreal level of sharpness (in a good way)—the Summarit draws very naturally, documenting the scene with minimal embellishment. It feels as if there’s hardly any glass between the subject and the final picture. For me, it's an extremely pleasant, organic rendering.

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[GG007GG]

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Just wanted to share another Summarit 50mm f2.5 photo with you

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1 hour ago, GG007GG said:

 

I own the Summarit 50mm f/2.5 and absolutely love it. It's tiny, super lightweight, and has a smooth, very short focus throw, which makes it a really quick 50mm to handle.

Personally, I prefer the design of the 50mm f/2.5 over the 50mm f/2.4.

The f/2.5 has a 39mm filter thread, while the f/2.4 uses 46mm. If you're using the 50mm f/2.4 together with the 24mm f/3.8, they can share the same 46mm filters — a practical advantage.

In terms of rendering, the Summarit sits somewhere between my 50mm Summilux ASPH (black chrome) and the 50mm Summilux V3 (with the 46mm filter thread). It's also relatively close to the APO Summicron. The bokeh balls are naturally a bit smaller compared to the Summilux lenses but still have plenty of character, combined with a very organic overall look. Not too clinical, and not overly "character-heavy" either — a really nice balance.

As for the minimum focus distance of 0.7m vs. 0.8m — that doesn’t really matter to me. I always carry a +1 close-up lens anyway, which works just fine for the rare situations where I want to get a little closer.

Here are some sample images for a bokeh comparison at a distance of about one meter of the Summarit 50mm 2.5, 50mm Summilux V3 (46mm Filter), 50mm Summilux ASPH black chrome) and 50mm APO Summicron.

 

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Thank you so much. This is veryhelpful.

Yeah they are all extremely good lenses. And image content and light is the important part of creating a good image.

I only want one 50mm, so trying to figure out if the added flexibility of my current 50Lux ASPH. is worth the added weight and size compared to a 50mm Summarit.

@adan @GG007GG, is the 50Lux ASPH better in terms of micro contrast and differentiation of tones? Here the 24/3.8 Elmar is amazing on M10M.

[jaapv]

At the time of introduction the lens was hailed as the best 50 mm ever, also in that respect. 

[TomB_tx]

On my M10 I shifted from my faster lenses and generally use the Summarit 50 & 35 f2.5 as my normal lenses. The size and handling of them are identical - makes muscle memory easy. I much prefer smaller lenses on M bodies, so preferred Summicrons and Elmars for 50 years.

[GG007GG]

If you're focused on microcontrast, the 50mm APO Summicron, the Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 50mm f/2.0, and also the Voigtlander APO-Lanthar f/3.5 all outperform both the Summarit and the Summilux. They also pair wonderfully with the 24mm 3.8. Just keep in mind that the Voigtlanders have slightly different color rendering — but thanks to Lightroom and similar tools, that’s no problem at all.

The Summilux, however, is a very versatile lens that, when stopped down, can also deliver excellent microcontrast and beautiful tonal rendering.

In short: if I could only have one lens, it would be the 50mm APO Summicron. If I were looking for something a bit more affordable, the 50mm Summilux ASPH (which you already have) would be my choice.

I would only consider swapping it for a Summarit as my only lens if I were specifically after that unique Summarit look, or if I really needed a compact, discreet, and ultra-light setup. Or, of course, if I had plans for how to use the money saved by selling the Summilux and buying a Summarit instead. And TomB_tx is absolutely right, a pair of 50/35 Summarits are nearly pocketable and a wonderful lightweight combination. 

But honestly, I think you might end up really missing your Summilux ASPH. I actually sold mine back then, regretted it — and ended up buying a new one. 

Edited July 12 by GG007GG
Size edit

[GG007GG]

Or, if money is available. Try the Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar 3.5 Version II in black as a companion to your Summilux. The aluminum black version is incredibly lightweight, has great APO performance and most importantly, a close focus distance of 35cm!!! (Perfect for a Leica M with Live View). It is super sharp from corner to corner, has incredible micro contrast and its bokeh at 3.5 is nice and the colors are great. In my view, this is not a multipurpose lens, but might be a great companion to your existing travel kit with incredible close focus capabilities too. It is so light and tiny and relatively inexpensive compared to, say, the M Apo. It is best for travel or product photography. Focus and aperture mechanism are similar to the Voigtländer Heliar 50mm 3.5, another nice lens.

Edited July 12 by GG007GG
Size edit

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GG007GG said:

 

If you're focused on microcontrast, the 50mm APO Summicron, the Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 50mm f/2.0, and also the Voigtlander APO-Lanthar f/3.5 all outperform both the Summarit and the Summilux. They also pair wonderfully with the 24mm 3.8. Just keep in mind that the Voigtlanders have slightly different color rendering — but thanks to Lightroom and similar tools, that’s no problem at all.

The Summilux, however, is a very versatile lens that, when stopped down, can also deliver excellent microcontrast and beautiful tonal rendering.

In short: if I could only have one lens, it would be the 50mm APO Summicron. If I were looking for something a bit more affordable, the 50mm Summilux ASPH (which you already have) would be my choice.

I would only consider swapping it for a Summarit as my only lens if I were specifically after that unique Summarit look, or if I really needed a compact, discreet, and ultra-light setup. Or, of course, if I had plans for how to use the money saved by selling the Summilux and buying a Summarit instead. And TomB_tx is absolutely right, a pair of 50/35 Summarits are nearly pocketable and a wonderful lightweight combination. 

But honestly, I think you might end up really missing your Summilux ASPH. I actually sold mine back then, regretted it — and ended up buying a new one. 

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head!

I will stick with my 50mm Summilux ASPH v2 - such a beautiful and versatile lens. And as you say, I would most likely miss it after a while with the Summarit.

And since I exclusively shoot people centric reportage/documentary (with my two lens 24/50 combo), the 50Lux ASPH is likely the ideal choice.

I would love to try the Leica 50 apo-summicron-M, but the price is a deterent for me, as 50mm is my secondary lens. And maybe the Lux is better for people than the Apo?

Funnily, I bought the 24mm Summilux after falling in love with the 24mm FOV when I got the 24/3.8. Luckily I kept the 24/3.8 as it ended up being my prefered lens of the two. So, the 24Lux was sold again. 😊

[lct]

If compactness and MFD are important for you i would consider the Skopar 50/2.2 with its 0.5 MFD too. Not that i dislike my Summarit 50/2.5, it is a very good lens indeed, and compact too, but aside from quality issues i got with it, it can produce some nasty flare that can be a problem as it comes when strong light sources like the sun are outside the frame. It is easy to prevent in LV mode though.

[lct]

I would not compare the Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1 to slower lenses as its main merit is its sharpness at f/1.4. Great lens there but, aside from quality issues i got with it too, it is a lens that i find too harsh on portraits. Also i don't like much its Ninja-star bokeh balls at f/2.8 but it is a matter of taste obviously. BTW the quality issues i got with it were some play in the helicoid and a stiff focus ring but the problems have been fixed by Leica. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, lct said:

I would not compare the Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1 to slower lenses as its main merit is its sharpness at f/1.4. Great lens there but, aside from quality issues i got with it too, it is a lens that i find too harsh on portraits. Also i don't like much its Ninja-star bokeh balls at f/2.8 but it is a matter of taste obviously. BTW the quality issues i got with it were some play in the helicoid and a stiff focus ring but the problems have been fixed by Leica. 

Thanks, @lct - All very valuable input. 

My 50Lux ASPH. is the close focus version, which has slightly more rounded “bokeh balls” than the v1. And the helicoid is presumably a new design to accommodate the close focus. How it holds up long term is to be seen, but so far so good.

For me the 50Lux ASPH is more than just sharpness at 1.4. It is a very balanced and versatile 50mm being excellent at all apertures.

Saying that, I would love if it was slightly smaller and lighter, but lens selection is always a balancing act of trade offs. And with the valuable input from this thread, I have realised that the 50/2.4 Summarit will suit my over all needs not as well as the 50Lux - although size and weight would be perfect.

I would love to try the 50/2.0 APO-M, but €8,000+ new and €5,500-6,500 pre-ownes is a bit much for me. And it might even prove too “hyper real” in sharpness and rendering for my informal documentary portraits - not sure? If it could be tried used for around €4,000-4,500 it would be another story.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, GG007GG said:

 

I own the Summarit 50mm f/2.5 and absolutely love it. It's tiny, super lightweight, and has a smooth, very short focus throw, which makes it a really quick 50mm to handle.

Personally, I prefer the design of the 50mm f/2.5 over the 50mm f/2.4.

The f/2.5 has a 39mm filter thread, while the f/2.4 uses 46mm. If you're using the 50mm f/2.4 together with the 24mm f/3.8, they can share the same 46mm filters — a practical advantage.

In terms of rendering, the Summarit sits somewhere between my 50mm Summilux ASPH (black chrome) and the 50mm Summilux V3 (with the 46mm filter thread). It's also relatively close to the APO Summicron. The bokeh balls are naturally a bit smaller compared to the Summilux lenses but still have plenty of character, combined with a very organic overall look. Not too clinical, and not overly "character-heavy" either — a really nice balance.

As for the minimum focus distance of 0.7m vs. 0.8m — that doesn’t really matter to me. I always carry a +1 close-up lens anyway, which works just fine for the rare situations where I want to get a little closer.

Here are some sample images for a bokeh comparison at a distance of about one meter of the Summarit 50mm 2.5, 50mm Summilux V3 (46mm Filter), 50mm Summilux ASPH black chrome) and 50mm APO Summicron.

 

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@GG007GG, looking at the images again, it’s quite amazing that the 50Lux ASPH seems almost slightly better at 1.4 than the Summarit at 2.4. What @adan description indicated.

Would be interesting to see 50Lux ASPH vs 50Apo both at f/2 and f/2.8. 😊

[lct]

17 minutes ago, 24mm_reportage said:

I would love to try the 50/2.0 APO-M, but €8,000+ new and €5,500-6,500 pre-ownes is a bit much for me. And it might even prove too “hyper real” in sharpness and rendering for my informal documentary portraits - not sure? If it could be tried used for around €4,000-4,500 it would be another story.

I got a mint copy of the 50/2 apo for 5,200 EUR but it was 10 years ago. Great lens indeed but not the one i would use for gentle portraits. Same for my Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1 more or less but the Summicron apo has round bokeh balls.

[Guest]

I just compared the MTF charts of my 24/3.8 Elmar-M ASPH. with the 50/2.0 Apo-Summicron-M ASPH.

Would the 50apo be the best match in rendering to my 24/3.8? Or am I splitting hairs, and my current 50/1.4 ASPH. close enough in real world images?

@adan @GG007GG, thoughts?

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