FrozenInTime Posted June 23 Share #61 Posted June 23 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) This crazy placement of the EVF window might take a while to be accepted, but it does not affect the handling of the camera much, and more significantly does not disrupt the opto-mechanical layout of the current rangefinder mechanism. Not the prettiest of solutions, but cheap and quick to implement. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! or A single hybrid viewfinder e.g. replacing the optical frame-lines with a LCD has the difficult issue of passing the rangefinder pipe through the middle of any LCD ( this is not a concern for cameras such as the Fuji X100 or Pro, but is a non-starter for a true rangefinder camera ) A fixed or holding hood as per the Sigma FP significantly changes the camera handling Edited June 23 by FrozenInTime 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! or A single hybrid viewfinder e.g. replacing the optical frame-lines with a LCD has the difficult issue of passing the rangefinder pipe through the middle of any LCD ( this is not a concern for cameras such as the Fuji X100 or Pro, but is a non-starter for a true rangefinder camera ) A fixed or holding hood as per the Sigma FP significantly changes the camera handling ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/422331-really-would-love-hybrid-viewfinder-on-d-variant/?do=findComment&comment=5822566'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 23 Posted June 23 Hi FrozenInTime, Take a look here Really would love hybrid viewfinder on D variant. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
charlesphoto99 Posted June 23 Share #62 Posted June 23 56 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said: This crazy placement of the EVF window might take a while to be accepted, but it does not affect the handling of the camera much, and more significantly does not disrupt the opto-mechanical layout of the current rangefinder mechanism. Not the prettiest of solutions, but cheap and quick to implement. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! or A single hybrid viewfinder e.g. replacing the optical frame-lines with a LCD has the difficult issue of passing the rangefinder pipe through the middle of any LCD ( this is not a concern for cameras such as the Fuji X100 or Pro, but is a non-starter for a true rangefinder camera ) A fixed or holding hood as per the Sigma FP significantly changes the camera handling By god, what monstrosities you've conjured. Also, where would the battery go (note that the battery doesn't magically collapse when you insert it into the camera). 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 23 Share #63 Posted June 23 4 hours ago, Dazzajl said: I think because their market is a shrinking demographic and they will have to look to younger buyers fairly soon. Will they be attracted to the same ‘pure’ spec as people love now? I’d be thrilled if they are but I don’t think they will. Considering the popularity of turntables and phono albums, as well as old film cameras (or even old digital p&s cameras) I would say some are doing quite well being niche and pure spec. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 23 Share #64 Posted June 23 3 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: By god, what monstrosities you've conjured. Also, where would the battery go (note that the battery doesn't magically collapse when you insert it into the camera). Actually, my bad, just had to check and the battery goes on the other side. Not used to thinking about it looking at it from the front. But still, what a freak! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 23 Share #65 Posted June 23 24 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: By god, what monstrosities you've conjured. Also, where would the battery go (note that the battery doesn't magically collapse when you insert it into the camera). Externally in the hot shoe of course. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzajl Posted June 23 Share #66 Posted June 23 22 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: Considering the popularity of turntables and phono albums, as well as old film cameras (or even old digital p&s cameras) I would say some are doing quite well being niche and pure spec. Absolutely. Here’s a thought though, just for the sake of discussion. You have the job at Leica to present to the board the roadmap for the next decade of the M line evolution. Would any of us be confident enough in the future spending power of the Phono/Lomo hipster community to stake our jobs on not introducing an M for the modern age? I don’t think I would, I’d be very much trying to develop a fly by wire rangemaster. For the market segment that likes their 911s to have electric power steering, water cooling and auto boxes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 23 Share #67 Posted June 23 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, FrozenInTime said: "This crazy placement of the EVF window might take a while to be accepted..."... 😸 I think that instead of having an EVF in the OVF Leica should engineer a pyramid-esque housing on the top-plate; drill a hole and poke some wires through (or perhaps something even more clever) which connects the EVF with the newly-reintroduced 'Third Window' on the front of the M where the frame-line illumination panel once stood. It would look somethig like this; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Mind you; I probably wouldn't buy one myself but perhaps that is simply because I'm more in the 'Traditionally-Minded-Old-Fuddy-Duddy' camp?... Philip. Edited June 23 by pippy 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Mind you; I probably wouldn't buy one myself but perhaps that is simply because I'm more in the 'Traditionally-Minded-Old-Fuddy-Duddy' camp?... Philip. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/422331-really-would-love-hybrid-viewfinder-on-d-variant/?do=findComment&comment=5822614'>More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 23 Share #68 Posted June 23 34 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said: Actually, my bad, just had to check and the battery goes on the other side... Perhaps you were remembering battery position of the M8 / M9 cameras?... Philip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted June 23 Share #69 Posted June 23 12 minutes ago, pippy said: 😸 I think that instead of having an EVF in the OVF Leica should engineer a pyramid-esque housing on the top-plate; drill a hole and poke some wires through (or perhaps something even more clever) which connects the EVF with the newly-reintroduced 'Third Window' on the front of the M where the frame-line illumination panel once stood. It would look somethig like this; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Mind you; I probably wouldn't buy one myself but perhaps that is simply because I'm more in the 'Traditionally-Minded-Old-Fuddy-Duddy' camp?... Philip. A bit like this old Alpa 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 23 Share #70 Posted June 23 27 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said: A bit like this old Alpa... And, of course, Japan's first SLR camera; the Asahiflex... https://www.pentax-slr.com/181841715.html Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 23 Share #71 Posted June 23 On 6/21/2025 at 8:52 AM, Tseg said: The “worst of both worlds” does not really describe what is worse and what the hurdles are. The hurdle is lack of space, as Stefan elaborated in this old interview (about halfway down)… https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2017/02/the-leica-m10-a-discussion-with-stefan-daniel-and-jesko-von-oeynhausen/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgh Posted June 23 Share #72 Posted June 23 (edited) 6 hours ago, Dazzajl said: I think because their market is a shrinking demographic and they will have to look to younger buyers fairly soon. Will they be attracted to the same ‘pure’ spec as people love now? I’d be thrilled if they are but I don’t think they will. As an elder millennial who occasionally teaches people half my age, they’re more interested in film and rejecting tech than I’ll ever be. And I think that’s saying something, because I hate my smartphone and resent the fact that life is essentially unlivable without where I live, I generally detest tech companies and social media and all of the ways they are “saving” the world while actually making it shittier, I disliked my amazing and perfect and super easy to get great images with Sony, I don’t even much enjoy my SL2. But the M’s…(the digital ones!), different story! Unless you’re printing in the darkroom or just married to the look of how film scans into a digital file (still a digital photo),then whatever. You’re ending up working digitally in the end. The real barrier between the younger market and Leica is their price structure. If Leica has a demographic problem it’s not their product, it’s the cost. And I could be wrong, but I don’t think they’d much like an EVF. Everyone is exhausted by screens imposing themselves in every damn corner of their lives. Edited June 23 by pgh 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 23 Share #73 Posted June 23 1 hour ago, pippy said: I think that instead of having an EVF in the OVF Leica should engineer ...... ..... an equivalent of the Alpa Reflex perhaps? https://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Alpa_Reflex A camera which combined both rangefinder and reflex viewing in one and was of course a runaway success🤔😉. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 23 Share #74 Posted June 23 (edited) 17 minutes ago, pgk said: ..... an equivalent of the Alpa Reflex perhaps? https://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Alpa_Reflex A camera which combined both rangefinder and reflex viewing in one and was of course a runaway success🤔😉. The 'problem' which Alpa faced was adopting the approach that each individual camera should be the photographic equivalent of a Swiss Watch... A very good friend of mine always had a hankering for one of the later models but I, for the life of me, didn't 'get it' at all. Nowadays I can sort-of see the attraction of something like an Alpa 11 Si in Black Finish but almost every Alpa camera offered for sale by a well-known UK dealer seems to have innumerable issues and are almost no better than being a 'Display-Model-Only'. Philip. Edited June 23 by pippy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 23 Share #75 Posted June 23 8 minutes ago, pippy said: The 'problem' which Alpa faced was adopting the approach that each individual camera should be the photographic equivalent of a Swiss Watch... Are you saying that Leica don't have such a philosophy? [🤣] Alpa and Reid* cameras were superbly crafted, as apparently were the Contax RFs, but with complexity comes difficulty in repair terms and with the difficulty of finding repairers able to work on such cameras, and the high cost of repair when they are found, I would suggest that such marvellous instruments are often 'for the shelf' these days. A pity. *not helped by the decision to use Imperial (BA?) threads which add another layer of repair sorcing frustration. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNK100 Posted June 23 Share #76 Posted June 23 3 hours ago, FrozenInTime said: This crazy placement of the EVF window might take a while to be accepted, but it does not affect the handling of the camera much, and more significantly does not disrupt the opto-mechanical layout of the current rangefinder mechanism. Not the prettiest of solutions, but cheap and quick to implement. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! or A single hybrid viewfinder e.g. replacing the optical frame-lines with a LCD has the difficult issue of passing the rangefinder pipe through the middle of any LCD ( this is not a concern for cameras such as the Fuji X100 or Pro, but is a non-starter for a true rangefinder camera ) A fixed or holding hood as per the Sigma FP significantly changes the camera handling Very funny! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted June 23 Share #77 Posted June 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, pgh said: The real barrier between the younger market and Leica is their price structure. If Leica has a demographic problem it’s not their product, it’s the cost. And I could be wrong, but I don’t think they’d much like an EVF. Everyone is exhausted by screens imposing themselves in every damn corner of their lives. This. Especially with Leica releasing so many uber-expensive but generally useless products for the masses (I'm looking at you 75 1.2) it becomes perceived by many as a ridiculous luxury brand, aspirational perhaps, but ultimately unobtainable, same as much four and five figure hifi is. Esp with the global economy tanking, those few extra thousands of dollars for only a slight advantage over a product ten times cheaper can only afforded by previous older generations who could actually save money, buy a house, retire etc etc. Leica are not looking to a new younger demographic - they're looking to squeeze the older demographic who seem to sell and rebuy their cameras, cars, etc like others change their socks. If you're struggling financially (and I am, even at the ripe old age of 61) you buy it once (most likely used, at that) and then be happy with what you've got and use it for a very long while. I mean, who really needs an M11P, D and M (and soon EVF), along with an SL3, Q3, Hasselblad X2D, and any number of p&s (I'm not exaggerating - there are members here with the complete set) when in reality a single camera would do the trick and probably result in becoming a better photographer in the long run? Edited June 23 by charlesphoto99 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 23 Share #78 Posted June 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, pgk said: Are you saying that Leica don't have such a philosophy? [🤣] Alpa and Reid* cameras were superbly crafted, as apparently were the Contax RFs, but with complexity comes difficulty... 😸 Well (and at the risk of going off-tangent for a second), not quite, but I have read that Alpa took matters further to the extent that they could - and would - incorporate, at the manufacture / assembly stage, some minor alterations to any particular camera's specification at the behest of a customer if such an alteration was possible. These really could - to some small degree - become tailor-made cameras. The Contax II is also a wonderful camera (mine dates to 1936) but the design of the shutter-curtains might easily have been the brainchild of Heath-Robinson(*). Not only that but in order to use the rangefinder it is neccessary to adopt the so-called 'Contax Grip' with the right hand as, to adopt the 'usual' technique, the smaller of the ramgefinder windows will become blocked by either the index- or middle-finger. Give me a Leica every time! Philip. * To help the comprehension of those for whom the name might not be familiar : https://shop.heathrobinsonmuseum.org/products/contraptions Edited June 23 by pippy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
didier Posted June 23 Share #79 Posted June 23 9 hours ago, Dazzajl said: their market is a shrinking demographic and they will have to look to younger buyers fairly soon. With the analog revival + the timeless interest in a very well-designed tool that is easy to use once you understood the basics (ie aperture/speed/sensitivity) + the great way of seeing the world through an OVF, I am not sure Leica’s market is necessarily going to shrink. They can get younger people towards such products in my view. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 24 Share #80 Posted June 24 On 6/23/2025 at 4:35 AM, Dazzajl said: I think because their market is a shrinking demographic and they will have to look to younger buyers fairly soon. Will they be attracted to the same ‘pure’ spec as people love now? I’d be thrilled if they are but I don’t think they will. Why is the demographic a shrinking market? The same, if not more, age every day. If anything the demographic is becoming greater. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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